No attic or basement
- Thread starter rob12013
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Had that happen to me one time and (as someone already hit upon) turns out they had fed the outside GFI receptacle from the bedroom and then fed the rest of the bedroom off the load side of the GFI.
Don't make it harder than it has to be.
Don't make it harder than it has to be.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
In my house there is a GFI button in the lower half of the outlet in the guest bathroom that controls the outlets in the master bathroom, the garage, and by the front and back doors. It does not, however, control the outlet that it is attached to in the guest bath. What's up with that?
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JDB3
Senior Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
Depending on the code under which it was wired, but, at one time it was permissible to feed an outside receptacle & kitchen receptacle on the same circuit.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
Do you mean the GFCI receptacle controls downstream devices but not itself? Something similiar could be achieved on the older GFCI receptacles by reversing line and load, but I can't remember whether this was the exact result.
Or bad GFCI?
Or unusual device?
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
I think he means there is another receptacle in the bathroom that is not on that GFCI; perhaps cut in/added after the fact.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
No, that isn't what I mean. In the guest bath there is a regular duplex receptacle plate by the sink. The top hole is filled by a regular 120V receptacle and the bottom hole is a two button (TEST and RESET) GFCI device. Those buttons are upside down, if that is significant. Anyway, those buttons control the outlet in the master bath, one outlet in the garage, and the outlets next to the front and back doors, but it does not control the outlet immediately above it in the same duplex plate. This is original wiring in the house, which was built in 1987; I am the original owner.
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- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
That sounds exactly like the symptom of Line/Load connection reversal, as mentioned previously.
cpinetree
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
Any chance that the receptacle was a switch for a garbage disposal outlet under the sink and someone decided they didn't need the garbage disposal but wanted a receptacle there?
Not sure why 2 wires in the same jacket would be marked black, but just another guess from my desk
Not sure why 2 wires in the same jacket would be marked black, but just another guess from my desk
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Not sure why 2 wires in the same jacket would be marked black, but just another guess from my desk
Once upon a time neither was used as a ungrounded conductor, think switch loop or even 240 volt circuit that got re-purposed. Also might be why the neutral got bootlegged from the EGC.
Gunn: I also have to agree you likely have line/load conductors reversed.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
third the line load reversal, or chalk it up to "funny things older gfci's do when near eol"
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
But if I were to swap line and load, wouldn't that make the GFI control the outlet at the GFI but not the rest of them? I recently added a GFI outlet to my deck paralleled to a non-GFI outlet in the kitchen, but with this one the GFI is internally hardwired to the outlet it is built into and controls it.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The design sounds like one of the old Square D devices. However I have never heard of one that was 'feed thru' only.
They introduced their GFCI receptacle in the standard duplex format. This made it very easy to incorporate into existing boxes. At that time the rectangular (Decora) format was not popular in most homes, we did lots of Pro vs Con selling back then.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
My wife keeps a blue canary night light in the outlet over the GIFI buttons (a la They Might Be Giants' "Birdhouse In Your Soul"), and I guess one of the outside outlet caps leaks a little because whenever it rains the GFI trips. Whenever I go to reset the GFI, the canary is still shining.
i was itching to remove a recessed 1x4 florescent fixture that's close to where the romex tones to. It also seems to go down wall to a receptacle but I opened that outlet up and checked. I guess it's possible it was phased to make 240v that's a good guess. don't think garbage disposable I have well and it's on other side of kitchen. I don't tone to any other devices in house, is there a way for better accuracy by shutting down entire house for better readings with toner?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Nope. If the receptacle and the load terminals are in parallel (likely, since that is the cheapest design) then the GFCI will separate the nominal Line side from the parallel pair of Load terminals and receptacle.
If the power is actually coming in via the Load terminals, you continue to provide power to the receptacle at all times but you disconnect the Line terminals, which are wired to the downstream outlets.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I will try to simplify even further.
Power circuit goes like this.
incoming lines>>>line terminals>>>contacts switched by GFCI logic components>>>load terminals and face receptacle tied to same point.
Supply power to load terminals and face receptacle is going to have power, but if device is tripped it will open the circuit to the (intended) line side terminals.
Newer versions don't have as simple of a main power circuit and is how they can protect from line/load conductor reversal.
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