No GEC's - Relocating Building Service Outside

[priorityded]

We are installing a new outdoor 1200A 3Ph4W main service for a commercial customer, replacing the existing indoor service. The plan is to intercept the existing utility underground secondary, bringng it in and then out of the new service gear. The new gear consists of a 1200A BPS w/GFI. The underground, which will now be considered feeders, consist of (3) sets of 4-600kCMIL in (3) 4"PVC conduits and (1) spare 4"PVC conduit. The new service will be bonded to (3) driven ground rods. There is no grounding conductor in the existing conduits between the new service switch and the existing gear. Is this permitted by 250.32? Is bonding to the water main from this new service required? Thanks for any help with this.

 

[iwire]

Even if everything else in 250.32(B)(2) was in your favor the fact that you have a GFP (not GFCI) main you have to have a separate EGC in the feeder from the new service to the old service.

You are also going to have to remove the existing MBJ at the existing gear. Which brings up another point you had better hope that the existing gear is not listed as "Service Equipment Only".

 

[Awg-Dawg]

Which brings up another point you had better hope that the existing gear is not listed as "Service Equipment Only".

What is the differance? I am not questioning your answer,just want to know the reason behind it. Other than it says SEO.Is the manufacturing different?

 

[iwire]

The difference that I am aware of is that there is no main bonding jumper to remove.

The neutral buss / terminal bars are not on insulated standoffs they are directly bolted to the enclosure.

I have not seen this on any new 1,200 gear but I would bet there are some old 1,200 services without isolated neutral bars.

 

[priorityded]

Even if everything else in 250.32(B)(2) was in your favor the fact that you have a GFP (not GFCI) main you have to have a separate EGC in the feeder from the new service to the old service.

The ground fault sensor (GFS) wraps all three phases & the Neutral and the neutral is bonded upstream of the sensor. Does this help me?

 

[iwire]

The ground fault sensor (GFS) wraps all three phases & the Neutral and the neutral is bonded upstream of the sensor. Does this help me?

Nope.

You have to take a look at 250.32(B)(2).

250.32(B)(2) Grounded Conductor. Where (1) an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, (2) there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, and (3) ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s) and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of
(1) That required by 220.22
(2) That required by 250.122

You have GFP on the common AC service so 250.32(B)(2) can not be used. You must use 250.32(B)(1) which requires separate EGC with the feeder.

The spare conduit can not be used for the EGC as it must run in the raceway with the feeders.