No grounds in electrical outlet box

T

Therealcrt

Senior Member
Location
Kansas City
Occupation
Electrician
This house is for sale and it was built in 1966 some of the outlet boxes do not have a ground wire just a hot and neutral and a buyer works from home so he said he needs it to be grounded. What do I do in this case? Obviously the home being built in 1966 is grandfathered in so I can’t do a whole home rewire to each outlet. What can I do? Do they make self grounded receptacles? What can I do to ensure the buyer is protected and will be safe with his equipment other there are certain things I can do.
 
I'd put either a ground fault breaker in, or a ground fault receptacle in at the first receptacle in the daisy chain and be done with it. Not sure what he needs a ground for. Probably really doesn't need a ground
 
Therealcrt said:
This house is for sale and it was built in 1966 some of the outlet boxes do not have a ground wire just a hot and neutral and a buyer works from home so he said he needs it to be grounded.
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He is likely misinformed. The need for a three wire receptacle is not as important as conventional wisdom would have many believe.
Therealcrt said:
What do I do in this case? Obviously the home being built in 1966 is grandfathered in so I can’t do a whole home rewire to each outlet. What can I do?
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You certainly can. Crawlspace, attic access, careful planning, and the use of some blank plates where you need to cut some access and you don't even need to patch any drywall.
Therealcrt said:
Do they make self grounded receptacles?
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Yes they do if the wiring is in a metal box and has a proper EGC ran to it.
Therealcrt said:
What can I do to ensure the buyer is protected and will be safe with his equipment other there are certain things I can do.
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GFCI protection and swap out two wire recepts for three wire is an option. My choice would be to run new circuits to the spots where he wants to plug something in that he insists has a need for an EGC and leave everything else alone.
 
ActionDave said:
He is likely misinformed. The need for a three wire receptacle is not as important as conventional wisdom would have many believe.
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I had a bunch of old laptop chargers and printer power supplies that I cut open to see where the grounds went. Three wire plug and cord, grounds went nowhere. Not connected to anything
 
ActionDave said:
He is likely misinformed. The need for a three wire receptacle is not as important as conventional wisdom would have many believe.

You certainly can. Crawlspace, attic access, careful planning, and the use of some blank plates where you need to cut some access and you don't even need to patch any drywall.

Yes they do if the wiring is in a metal box and has a proper EGC ran to it.

GFCI protection and swap out two wire recepts for three wire is an option. My choice would be to run new circuits to the spots where he wants to plug something in that he insists has a need for an EGC and leave everything else alone.
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That still doesn’t protect the equipment though? There’s no EGC present
 
You can run an individual EGC to the boxes in question that absolutely need a ground (see 250.114 for a list of what must be grounded). See 250.130 for where you can connect that separate retrofit EGC for a circuit. Ask homeowner which things he has that actually have a ground prong on their power cord. So many things today do not. This could also be a case where you end up using all those "GFCI protected - No Equipment Ground" stickers that come in a GFCI receptacle box if you change his 2 prongers to 3.

I've had multiple houses from the mid 60's that had a mix of grounded and ungrounded NM cable. Many times the EGC was folded back behind the cable and outside of the box as Joe Villani indicated. The bugger was many electricians twisted those together so you can't pull them back into the box (or you can at least get a short bit of it before it breaks off). I only had to run EGC to a few boxes and was able to ground most things between the EGCs I could fish back into the box and running some #12 green to a few strategic boxes.

Also pay attention to 406.4(D) if you change out any receptacle. That change out requires the receptacle to be brought to current rules for AFCI, GFCI, TR, WR, etc.
 
Therealcrt said:
That still doesn’t protect the equipment though? There’s no EGC present
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EGC is not necessarily needed to protect equipment. If the equipment shorts hot to neutral, the breaker will trip. If it shorts to the case, the case will be live but a GFCI will trip once someone touches the chassis. That's assuming the chassis is metal and so many are now plastic.
 
Therealcrt said:
That still doesn’t protect the equipment though? There’s no EGC present
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What equipment? I laughed a little at the "because the buyer works from home" part of your original question. Is he just using IT equipment for internet and calls (grounding isn't strictly necessary) or is there some fancier equipment involved in his work? (Latter might be a different situation.)
 
jaggedben said:
What equipment? I laughed a little at the "because the buyer works from home" part of your original question. Is he just using IT equipment for internet and calls (grounding isn't strictly necessary) or is there some fancier equipment involved in his work? (Latter might be a different situation.)
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Well the buyer wants peace of mind
 
suemarkp said:
EGC is not necessarily needed to protect equipment. If the equipment shorts hot to neutral, the breaker will trip. If it shorts to the case, the case will be live but a GFCI will trip once someone touches the chassis. That's assuming the chassis is metal and so many are now plastic.
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So you’re saying a GF I would be ok even if there is no ECG present within the circuit
 
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