No main breaker

[iaov]

Was at a house in town last week raising a service mast. Went to panel to shut off main breaker before POCO reconnect and discovered there was none!! Any of you guys see this very often?? I'm changing out this panel on Tuesday.

 

[PetrosA]

How many breakers are in the panel? Any main somewhere up the line?

 

[iaov]

Its a Push-Matic with 20 breakers. No main up the line. Had to be a HO/DIY install.

 

[480sparky]

Its a Push-Matic with 20 breakers. No main up the line. Had to be a HO/DIY install.

Sure it wasn't a split bus panel?

 

[B4T]

Sounds like someone needed more space, took out the main, and made it a main lug panel

 

[iaov]

Sure it wasn't a split bus panel?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, but I didn't look real close. Have you seen this before Ken?

 

[480sparky]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, but I didn't look real close. Have you seen this before Ken?

On rare occasion.

Main lugs feed top 8 spaces. Breaker 6/8 feeds remainder of panel.

 

[bradleyelectric]

There were a lot of split bus panels around here. Take a good look at it and it is set up so that there are 6 2pole breakers, 1 of which feeds the bus that feeds the rest of the panel. The bus is actually split, lugs at the top feed the top section, the "lighting main" feeds the rest of the bus. If that is what you are seeing, that is what you've got.

 

[iaov]

Thanx for the info guys. I'm changing out this panel next week so I'll have a look then and let you know. What is the reasoning for a split bus panel anyways??

 

[480sparky]

Thanx for the info guys. I'm changing out this panel next week so I'll have a look then and let you know. What is the reasoning for a split bus panel anyways??

No need for a main, but still complied with what is now 230.71(A) [6-throw rule].

 

[iaov]

I thought that might be what they were getting at. Seems like it would be easier/cheaper just to have a main in there.

 

[Cow]

I've seen a QO mainlug panel once before, I have no idea how that passed?:-?

 

[LarryFine]

I thought that might be what they were getting at. Seems like it would be easier/cheaper just to have a main in there.

It's easy to forget that electrical systems have evolved over the years. What's best now may not have been best at the time, or may have been more expensive.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

It's easy to forget that electrical systems have evolved over the years. What's best now may not have been best at the time, or may have been more expensive.

This is quite true.


Also, whether by a DIYer or an electrician, not all installations, including services are installed and inspected. Especially when times like this being slow and money tight. Some have keys to locks and others just bootleg the job.

 

[Windclaw]

iaov..."main breaker"

iaov..."main breaker"

Was at a house in town last week raising a service mast. Went to panel to shut off main breaker before POCO reconnect and discovered there was none!! Any of you guys see this very often?? I'm changing out this panel on Tuesday.

The house I currently live in is like this NO MAIN, it was built like this in 1957! also has 14 ga wire on 20 amp breakers and NO equipment grounds to most of the recpts.

Old house maybe?

B. Mandl

 

[cowboyjwc]

Remember to take a look at the FP note for 230.71, which sends you to 408.36(A). Exception No, 2: for existing installations, individual protection for lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboards shall not be required where such panelboards are used as service equipment in supplying an individual residential occupancy.

 

[mxslick]

No mains is a very common sight here in So Cali.

Remember that a lot of older panels were installed before the six throws rule.

Panels popular here with no mains include Zinsco, FPE, Pushmatic, some older C-H, Wadsworth, and Westinghouse.

For a resi panel I've always thought the six throws rule was kinda dumb anyways..even a full 24-space panel can be shut off in less than six throws if you use the edge of your hand to hit several breakers at once.

 

[480sparky]

............Remember that a lot of older panels were installed before the six throws rule..........

The six-throw rule goes back to 1931.

 

[wireguru]

No mains is a very common sight here in So Cali.

Remember that a lot of older panels were installed before the six throws rule.

Panels popular here with no mains include Zinsco, FPE, Pushmatic, some older C-H, Wadsworth, and Westinghouse.

For a resi panel I've always thought the six throws rule was kinda dumb anyways..even a full 24-space panel can be shut off in less than six throws if you use the edge of your hand to hit several breakers at once.

do they make a 7 pole handle tie?

 

[ultramegabob]

I was working in a house once where the meter was located on the back of the house, and a main lug panel was located in the garage. I thought it had no main (only three wire feeding main lug panel), after closer inspection, I found a main disconnect in the living room that had been partially coverd with paneling and a picture. The customer had totally forgot about covering it up, and had no idea it was there.