No power needed??

[sameguy]

Somewhat off topic, but that's the only LED replacement that I have seen that's "approved for use in totally enclosed fixtures". I've never paid attention to that on the theory that incandescent lamps generate so much heat and the heat from LED replacements is barely perceptible. So a fixture designed for incandescent certainly should pose no problem for an LED replacement.

Is there more to this than what I'm thinking?

-Hal

It's the heat of the driver not the LED and I just bought (12) 60w equivalent for enclosed use for $1.25ea. Valu Home Center

 

[retirede]

Somewhat off topic, but that's the only LED replacement that I have seen that's "approved for use in totally enclosed fixtures". I've never paid attention to that on the theory that incandescent lamps generate so much heat and the heat from LED replacements is barely perceptible. So a fixture designed for incandescent certainly should pose no problem for an LED replacement.

Is there more to this than what I'm thinking?

-Hal

The manufacturer cannot know in advance the temperature rise characteristics of their bulb in any given enclosed fixture.
I don’t think any danger is posed by using any lumen-equivalent LED bulb in an enclosed fixture designed for incandescents, just a possible shortening of bulb life due to heat buildup in the electronics.
I have cheaper LED bulbs in enclosed fixtures all over my house and have yet to have one fail, many going on 5 years old.

 

[hbiss]

I understand that the driver creates the heat but leave one lit for awhile and put your hand on the base. Hardly any heat at all compared to incandescents. Certainly a fixture designed for incandescents isn't going to cause a problem with heat build up.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

I understand that the driver creates the heat but leave one lit for awhile and put your hand on the base. Hardly any heat at all compared to incandescents. Certainly a fixture designed for incandescents isn't going to cause a problem with heat build up.

-Hal

Won't cause a heat build up problem with the fixture, can keep the lamp from sinking enough heat away from critical components and shorten the life of those lamp components. What heat is produced in an LED is concentrated in a much smaller area, and they have heat sinking components to pull heat away from parts that would overheat without the heat sinks. Totally enclose a heat sink device that was designed to depend on air flowing over it to function properly and you reduce it's effectiveness.

 

[gar]

180219-2349 EST

hbiss:

You need to run some experiments.

Take a can fixture for a 60 W incandescent, and totally blanket this in fiberglass insulation. Install a thermocouple at the socket to measure the temperature. Compare the temperature rise of the socket with 120 V 60 Hz input to a 60 W incandescent, and a 9 W LED. Have the can light pointing down.

Several basic points:

1. An incandescent bulb is composed of a number of components that can continuously tolerate moderately high temperatures. Tungsten, glass, brass, aluminum, solder, and special cements.

The tungsten filament itself operates at a very high temperature. Of the input energy to the bulb a moderately large percentage is radiated at a high frequency (visible light), and an even greater amount at somewhat lower frequencies, just below visible light. This energy is radiated out of the fixture. The much lower frequencies are a small component of the total input energy, and end up having to be conducted out of the fixture.

2. An LED bulb is mostly electronic components. Grossly we can say that these probably should not be operated above about 150 F.

The energy input to an LED has a large amount of input energy come out of the bulb at some narrow frequencies within the visible spectrum. Very little at high IR frequencies. The electronic components being at very very low IR frequencies don't radiate much energy and this energy needs to be conducted away.


I don't remember the details of my experiments, but the temperature rise was too high for the LED.

.

 

[hbiss]

I just measured the base temperature of an A19 60w equivalent LED installed in a square recessed closet type light with a solid glass trim. With my IR thermometer I read 87.7 deg at the base of the lamp after the lamp was in operation with the fixture closed for several hours. Ambient was 69 deg. The inside of the housing was not even perceptibly warm.

-Hal

 

[kwired]

I just measured the base temperature of an A19 60w equivalent LED installed in a square recessed closet type light with a solid glass trim. With my IR thermometer I read 87.7 deg at the base of the lamp after the lamp was in operation with the fixture closed for several hours. Ambient was 69 deg. The inside of the housing was not even perceptibly warm.

-Hal

87.7 deg should feel slightly cool to the touch as it is below your body temperature. Base might actually be that cool if it is installed base down. LED A19 lamps still get warm enough that you can feel at least some warmth if you grab the main body of the lamp after it has been running for a while.

 

[K8MHZ]

The 100 watt equivalent, at least the one I have, gets quite a bit hotter than the 60 watt equivalents. I have a 100W eq installed base up with no enclosure in a keyed base, and the base of the bulb gets too hot to touch.

 

[hbiss]

So I think the only thing to conclude is it depends on the lamp, whether or not it says "approved" for use in an enclosed fixture. I have a suspicion that all LED replacements are moving to a design for enclosed fixtures since probably 50% will be used that way and nobody going to notice the warning on the package- if there is one.

-Hal

 

[Greg1707]

same experience

same experience

I just had this same issue today.

I replaced three candelabra type bulbs in a chandelier fixture in the foyer of a large house. The LED bulbs continued to glow when the switches were in the off position. I noticed one switch was an "illuminated" type switch (it was a four way switch) so I replaced it. Same problem. I looked further and there was a second "illuminated" switch. I had to give up at that point because I did not have a three way ivory Decora switch on the truck! The owner had some incandescent bulbs so we swapped out the LED for the incandescent and no problem.

 

[subpanel]

I had the same issue withlighted switches. I believe it only happens with LEDs that have very low wattage. The hallway looked posessed.

Another fixture in front of the house still has that going on. I left it as is because even if I dont turn it on they 3 LED bulbs in the fixture are sort of on.