- Location
- Logan, Utah
I have a question. Is the use of Noalox required on aluminum conductors when terminated on al/cu rated lugs in a loadcenter. I would appreciate any input on this subject thanks.
Chris.
Chris.
noalox
- Thread starter raider1
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: noalox
UL tests the lugs without No-Al-ox first. If it fails then the test is repeated with the inhibitor.
If the mfg instructors require inhibitor then it is required, otherwise,no. See section 110.3(B)
UL tests the lugs without No-Al-ox first. If it fails then the test is repeated with the inhibitor.
If the mfg instructors require inhibitor then it is required, otherwise,no. See section 110.3(B)
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: noalox
See also 110.14
See also 110.14
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Re: noalox
Does anyone know of a loadcenter or panel on the market today that needs to have noalox on aluminum connections, as per UL listings?
Thanks, Chris.
Does anyone know of a loadcenter or panel on the market today that needs to have noalox on aluminum connections, as per UL listings?
Thanks, Chris.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: noalox
Until it is a well established fact in the industry that terminals generally no longer need anti oxidant joint compound for aluminium connections, I will continue to use it. I don't think a dab of Penetrox here and there is going to blow the budget labor or materials wise. I just don't want to ever give inspectors a reason to take a second look, whether I'm right or wrong.
Until it is a well established fact in the industry that terminals generally no longer need anti oxidant joint compound for aluminium connections, I will continue to use it. I don't think a dab of Penetrox here and there is going to blow the budget labor or materials wise. I just don't want to ever give inspectors a reason to take a second look, whether I'm right or wrong.
Re: noalox
question 1...the inspector in the jurisdiction where I work requires it!
question 2...I am not aware of a manufacturer that *requires it*...you can do a manufacturer search on the internet and request an answer via e-mail! I use penetrox...the temperature rating is higher than noalox...just my preference...no other reason! inspector likes to see it oosing out around the connections...i think it turns him on!!!
question 3...I believe there use to be several different (applications) available....there is one for copper to aluminum connections and a seperate kind for aluminum to aluminum connections....made by the same manufacturer...so you had to purchase two bottles! Inspector can tell the difference...can you? also use it when screwing aluminum conduit together...reduces gaulding when I unscrew it and fix my uh-oh!
question 1...the inspector in the jurisdiction where I work requires it!
question 2...I am not aware of a manufacturer that *requires it*...you can do a manufacturer search on the internet and request an answer via e-mail! I use penetrox...the temperature rating is higher than noalox...just my preference...no other reason! inspector likes to see it oosing out around the connections...i think it turns him on!!!
question 3...I believe there use to be several different (applications) available....there is one for copper to aluminum connections and a seperate kind for aluminum to aluminum connections....made by the same manufacturer...so you had to purchase two bottles! Inspector can tell the difference...can you? also use it when screwing aluminum conduit together...reduces gaulding when I unscrew it and fix my uh-oh!
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: noalox
WHAT??? I'm thinking you might be mixed up about that. If that was true, it would be a million dollars a bottle.
stud696981
Senior Member
Re: noalox
Using some type of anti oxidant compound won't hurt anything. When ever I use aluminum wire I automatically put some on each connection, not using it is just totally cheap in my opinion. I prefer to do a job like it is my own house and that I want it to last many years.
Using some type of anti oxidant compound won't hurt anything. When ever I use aluminum wire I automatically put some on each connection, not using it is just totally cheap in my opinion. I prefer to do a job like it is my own house and that I want it to last many years.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: noalox
The question then becomes, are you installing the anti-oxidant compoiund properly? If the compound is listed, you must follow its instructions, as per 110.3(B). These instructions typically include the use of a wire brush, either before or after the use of the product, in an effort to get the compound into the conductor better. Are you using a brush, or are you simply squirting a bunch of slime onto the conductor and terminating it?
The question then becomes, are you installing the anti-oxidant compoiund properly? If the compound is listed, you must follow its instructions, as per 110.3(B). These instructions typically include the use of a wire brush, either before or after the use of the product, in an effort to get the compound into the conductor better. Are you using a brush, or are you simply squirting a bunch of slime onto the conductor and terminating it?
DaveTap
Senior Member
- Location
- Currently Flowery Branch, GA
I always wonder how they expect you to work it in using a wire brush or emery cloth... those are what I normally use to clean it out of the wire.
Last edited:
The promciple os that pure, raw aluminim reacts instantly with oxygen in the air to for an aluminum-oxide. This oxide is not a good conductor. The idea is to coat the aluminum with NoALox which is basically a grease.
Then the grease covered wire is brushed with a wire brush to remove the oxide. The grease prevents the contact with oxygen thus providing a good electrical contact.
~Peter
[The pun was unavoidable.]
Then the grease covered wire is brushed with a wire brush to remove the oxide. The grease prevents the contact with oxygen thus providing a good electrical contact.
~Peter
[The pun was unavoidable.]
Ok I'll answer. I keep an empty wall anchor box in my truck, the kind that you get a free drill bit with. I break out the center divider and that is where I keep the little toothbrush sized wire brush. I squirt the goop on then scrub it in well on all sides and the top. The little plastic case keeps the goop from slopping up my truck.
Anyone ever notice whenever you wear a new shirt to work that is the day you get stuck working with Penetrox?
and, don't ask me how I know, but Burndy antiox will not hurt your eyes.
Anyone ever notice whenever you wear a new shirt to work that is the day you get stuck working with Penetrox?
and, don't ask me how I know, but Burndy antiox will not hurt your eyes.
radiopet
Senior Member
- Location
- Spotsylvania, VA
Paul,
The use of an Anti-Oxident is allowed in the NEC but it does not demand that it be used. Unless of course the manufacturer of the panel in question lists in it's installation that it be used.
It is correct that while today many confuse it as being required on all AL connections......it is not generally but in regards to do I use it...yes, I still do as I got a few bottles I need to use up..
Ryan is 100% right in that again if the Manufacturer calls for it in their panel then it must be used...but as a blanket statement it is not the view of the NEC that it has to be used......but clearly allows for it's use.
Hope this clears it up
The use of an Anti-Oxident is allowed in the NEC but it does not demand that it be used. Unless of course the manufacturer of the panel in question lists in it's installation that it be used.
It is correct that while today many confuse it as being required on all AL connections......it is not generally but in regards to do I use it...yes, I still do as I got a few bottles I need to use up..
Ryan is 100% right in that again if the Manufacturer calls for it in their panel then it must be used...but as a blanket statement it is not the view of the NEC that it has to be used......but clearly allows for it's use.
Hope this clears it up
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
radiopet said:
Has anyone seen a panel that required the use of these products?
- Location
- Massachusetts
infinity said:
I saw a fairly recent GE 100 amp disconnect that require it if AL was used.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
I will answer your question point-blank: No, I don't use a wire brush.paul32 said:
I do use De-Ox.
I'll buy a wire brush, but it's down there on the tool chart for the moment. If that makes me a bad guy, I will still be asleep on time tonight.
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
According to a statement in writing from an aluminum representative which I received last year:
"Al/Cu connectors (mechanical or compression) are tested to UL 486B:
UL 486B (par. 7.5, p.12) "If specific instructions for assembling the connector to the conductor are furnished wirth the connector by manufacturer such instructions are to be followed in the preparaion of the samples except the conductor is not to be brushed or abraded and and antioxidant is used only if the connector is pre-filled with the antioxidant.""
Now I'm taking this at face value since I have not read the UL standard for myself, but it seems clear that we should not abrade the conductors.
"Al/Cu connectors (mechanical or compression) are tested to UL 486B:
UL 486B (par. 7.5, p.12) "If specific instructions for assembling the connector to the conductor are furnished wirth the connector by manufacturer such instructions are to be followed in the preparaion of the samples except the conductor is not to be brushed or abraded and and antioxidant is used only if the connector is pre-filled with the antioxidant.""
Now I'm taking this at face value since I have not read the UL standard for myself, but it seems clear that we should not abrade the conductors.
Oakey
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
monkey said:
LOL yes. Happens to me all the time, must be some unwritten rule we dont know about.
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