Non listed luninairs

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As an inspector you could just ignore the issue and pretend not to see it. The problem is liabilty and i am sure your not hired to be doing that type of testing. Better question is why an EC would install it. One way out is to carefully word to the installer that you can not pass this but will sign off on a keyless. What they do after ink dries is not your problem. I once worked for an EC that would sometimes instruct me to hang it anyways.
 
Hendrix said:
That would be one option, but as the ahj can I "approve" the fixture?
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You could using 110.2 and 110.3(A) but what would you call what you have approved?

410.6 requires all luminaires and lampholders to be listed so what it is that you are approving could be neither of these and would not be recognized by the NEC.

Pete
 
Your question makes two bad assumptions. You assume that custom fixtures are not listed, and you assume that factory made ones are. You are wrong on both counts.

To start with, the listing requirement for lighting fixtures is quite recent - and whether NEC rules can be applied to portable / table lamps is another issue. After all, most of us made a table lamp as a school shop project (back when no bowling pin was safe). Heck, four of the six lamps in my house are home-made ... but I wander.

There are many custom shops that are able to affix the UL lable to their custom products.

Likewise, even the largest lighting manufacturers list only a fraction of their production runs. The reason is simple: the use of the UL lable costs money; they pay 'per sticker,' as it were. I would not be surprised to open the fixtures over the typing pool and find several of the fixtures lacked the sticker, but were otherwise identical.

I'm not sure the listing requirement was a smart move, and I doubt it will improve safety one bit.
 
renosteinke said:
Your question makes two bad assumptions. You assume that custom fixtures are not listed, and you assume that factory made ones are. You are wrong on both counts.

To start with, the listing requirement for lighting fixtures is quite recent - and whether NEC rules can be applied to portable / table lamps is another issue. After all, most of us made a table lamp as a school shop project (back when no bowling pin was safe). Heck, four of the six lamps in my house are home-made ... but I wander.

There are many custom shops that are able to affix the UL lable to their custom products.

Likewise, even the largest lighting manufacturers list only a fraction of their production runs. The reason is simple: the use of the UL lable costs money; they pay 'per sticker,' as it were. I would not be surprised to open the fixtures over the typing pool and find several of the fixtures lacked the sticker, but were otherwise identical.
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Fascinating ............ how does any of that come close to answering the question?

I'm not sure the listing requirement was a smart move, and I doubt it will improve safety one bit.
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I see no hardship caused by the requirement and it will not reduce safety so I fail to see a problem.
 
renosteinke said:
Your question makes two bad assumptions. You assume that custom fixtures are not listed, and you assume that factory made ones are. You are wrong on both counts.

To start with, the listing requirement for lighting fixtures is quite recent - and whether NEC rules can be applied to portable / table lamps is another issue. After all, most of us made a table lamp as a school shop project (back when no bowling pin was safe). Heck, four of the six lamps in my house are home-made ... but I wander.

There are many custom shops that are able to affix the UL lable to their custom products.

Likewise, even the largest lighting manufacturers list only a fraction of their production runs. The reason is simple: the use of the UL lable costs money; they pay 'per sticker,' as it were. I would not be surprised to open the fixtures over the typing pool and find several of the fixtures lacked the sticker, but were otherwise identical.

I'm not sure the listing requirement was a smart move, and I doubt it will improve safety one bit.
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That sticker is basically an inspection. Do you not believe in inspections ? Without them we start having very unsafe conditions as we often see from fellow members here that work in unlicensed areas. Sure you can make your own lamps but is up to you to self inspect and is also not the electrical inspectors problem as he inspects buildings. Inspectors do us all a service. We like to think when we sleep that we will not burn up in a fire that just might be started from that home made fixture. Last week we took a vacation to Key West and stayed in a B&B that was built in 1934. Like any normal electrician I had to look for violations and yes plenty of them. Only a few could really likely cause a fire. Point is that without NEC the risks go up. Do i have trust in them U L stickers NO but it is a start in the right direction. Would be easy to counterfit stickers and being where they are made be hard to take legal action.
I think it's great when we have inspectors try to live up to there jobs
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
As an inspector you could just ignore the issue and pretend not to see it. The problem is liabilty and i am sure your not hired to be doing that type of testing. Better question is why an EC would install it. One way out is to carefully word to the installer that you can not pass this but will sign off on a keyless. What they do after ink dries is not your problem. I once worked for an EC that would sometimes instruct me to hang it anyways.
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The forementioned fixtures have hand turned shades. Very high end and the maker has been selling them for years. All the parts are ul listed and the ones that I am concerned with have cfl bases. www.woodshades.com are the ones I'm speaking of.
 
Impressive. The sconces and chandeliers that are permanently wired must be listed. Confirm with the manufacturer.

I agree with the listing requirement since it requires that the fixtures be tested for the labeled wattage. I've seen plenty of fixtures melt or burn.
 
Hendrix said:
The forementioned fixtures have hand turned shades. Very high end and the maker has been selling them for years. All the parts are ul listed and the ones that I am concerned with have cfl bases. www.woodshades.com are the ones I'm speaking of.
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Likely are safe but UL parts are just that. When combined into a fixture all you have is a bunch of UL parts. The concern is over the fixture as a shock or fire hazard. In my opinion you can not legaly allow it knowing what you stated. Should this ever go south it puts you in a very bad spot. I have been told by many inspectors that they can only inspect what is there at the time of inspection. For your own good have them either blank it off or install a cheap $3 throw away fixture. You and I both know what will happen when you leave. Its all about covering your own behind. I know as an inspector you have limited liability but that still might land you in court. The customer will lie in court so be prepaired.
 
renosteinke said:
Likewise, even the largest lighting manufacturers list only a fraction of their production runs. The reason is simple: the use of the UL lable costs money; they pay 'per sticker,' as it were. I would not be surprised to open the fixtures over the typing pool and find several of the fixtures lacked the sticker, but were otherwise identical.
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There is a difference between a fixture being listed and labeled. The NEC makes a note of stating that not all listing organizations label also.
 
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