Non-wet bar area countertop circuit reqs

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BMacky

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Foster City, CA
I am doing a residential remodel where the customer has specified a refrigerator/icemaker for a bar area. The countertop, which has no sink, will also have convenience outlets- but do these, outside of a kitchen, need to comply with typical countertop spacing reqs for a kitchen? Can the receptacles be from an existing branch circuit in the space? Professionally I'd prefer a dedicated countertop appliance circuit, but this is across the "great room" from the kitchen, and not considered part of the kitchen space.

Please advise.

Thank you!
 
Countertop spacing is not limited to kitchens only, but does not necessarily include a wet bar. As far as tapping of existing circuits I would check with local inspector considering this forum is site unseen :smile: .
 
BMacky,

If your using the 2008 NEC, 210.52[C] Countertops, now includes the wording “and similar areas” so, that would most likely be interpreted to include wet/dry bar countertop area receptacle spacing.
Also, the wording in 210.52[1] Receptacle Outlets Served, says “all countertop areas covered by 210.52[C]”. I believe most inspectors would interpret that to mean that those wet/dry bar countertop outlets need to be on at least one of the two or more required SABC’s.
You could run a separate 20A circuit for the dinning room and bar countertop outlets, because this would be considered as one of the two or “more” SABC’S, as per 210.52[1]. That way you can also utilize the same 20A AFCI circuit breaker, since both the dinning room and great room where the bar is located are now required to be supplied with AFCI protected circuits, whereas the kitchen is not.
 
BMacky said:
I am doing a residential remodel where the customer has specified a refrigerator/icemaker for a bar area. The countertop, which has no sink, will also have convenience outlets- but do these, outside of a kitchen, need to comply with typical countertop spacing reqs for a kitchen? Can the receptacles be from an existing branch circuit in the space? Professionally I'd prefer a dedicated countertop appliance circuit, but this is across the "great room" from the kitchen, and not considered part of the kitchen space.

Please advise.

Thank you!
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If the space outside of the kitchen is not a breakfast room, dining room, or similar area, the answer is no.


If the space ouside of the kitchen is not a breakfast room, dining room, or similar area, the answer is yes
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
If the space outside of the kitchen is not a breakfast room, dining room, or similar area, the answer is no.


If the space ouside of the kitchen is not a breakfast room, dining room, or similar area, the answer is yes
Click to expand...

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Yes or no -- you can't have the same conditions with 2 answers. :grin: Check your post
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Yes or no -- you can't have the same conditions with 2 answers. :grin: Check your post
Click to expand...
Pierre's post is easier to figure out than your puzzle. :grin: Look at how he highlighted 2 questions w/ different colors & then answered them w/ the corresponding colors. I think. :smile:
 
rcarroll said:
Pierre's post is easier to figure out than your puzzle. :grin: Look at how he highlighted 2 questions w/ different colors & then answered them w/ the corresponding colors. I think. :smile:
Click to expand...


I think so, too. And I agree with Pierre.

2005 NEC 210.52(C) says "Countertops in kitchens and dining rooms".

2008 NEC 210.52(C) says "Countertops in kitchens,pantries, breakfast rooms, dining rooms and similar areas" which IMSO means rooms associated with food. I don't think bar areas would be included. This would also apply to the SABC requirement.
 
Dennis
You are outnumbered 3 - 1. ;) :grin:

I thought I answered his quetion(s). What do you disagree with?


P.S. I can not have my cake period...I am trying to lose my holiday weight. :mad:
Okay, so I sneak a piece here or there, and a bag of chips, and pretzels...but I do eat a bag of snap peas too. For my good health.;)
 
Just measure the length of the kitchen and install the countertops accordingly which is limited within the area of kitchen.
 
which IMSO means rooms associated with food. I don't think bar areas would be included.
Click to expand...

Wirebender, say it ain't so. I thought Lone Star was one of the four basic food groups. You know, a pork chop in every can.......:D
I also agree with Pierre. JMSO
 
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