North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

[buloni]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

Hello again, (LONG response)
Thank you for ALL the insight to the needed changes in the law here in NC and some other places. I honestly see so many issues in COMMON with the nursing laws! LOL We all need changes to maintain quality service to our customers!

As for a contract, we had a verbal contract to do the work. We discussed exactly what I needed, (number of outlets, a cable outlet and telephone outlet as well as wiring for the new heating unit) We also discussed to opening for fan/chandelier and 4 recessed lights. We agreed to a set price. Not sure if I should mention that?? I also asked at the same time if he could add 4 recessed lights in my existing home. He said yes and gave me a price. I added the two together and said this is the price. He said yes.

I was shocked with the bill when it came. He itemized everything we had discussed and instead of the flat fee for the addition and the 4 recessed lights it totalled $800.00 more. I am going to try my best to get that lowered to the original amount he quoted. I do not want to ruin my credit score ... though! I asked for a written contract and he said I did not need it... and he would simply send a bill upon completion.

As for the law... I read the info at the site you gentlemen have sent me. I do find some of this challenging because the written law defines (as I understand) the elecrician should be supervising at the least...
Quoting from TITLE 21 NCAC 18B

.0907 RESPONSIBILITY OF LICENSEES AND QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS


(b) "Gross incompetence" refers to such lack of knowledge, supervision or technical competence as to correspond or create risk similar to the consequences of gross negligence.


(c) ?Supervision? within the meaning of G.S. 87-43 refers to that degree of attendance, participation and oversight which is necessary and sufficient to ensure that the project is carried out in a workmanlike manner, with the requisite skill and that the installation is made properly, safely and in accordance with applicable codes and rules. Supervision means active onsite review of the work by a qualified individual while the work is in progress.


.0908 MALPRACTICE

(c) Where work is carried out by employees of the licensee, failure to provide supervision of such employees, whether by consistent absence from the workplace or jobsite, or as demonstrated by the failure of the work to comply with this rule, also constitutes malpractice on the part of the licensee.

87-41.1. Definitions.
As used in this Article, unless the context requires otherwise:
(1) A "qualified individual" is an individual who is qualified in a specific license classification as a result of having taken and passed the qualifying examination required by this Article for such a classification and who has been certified as such by the Board pursuant to G.S. 87-42.
(2) A "listed qualified individual" is a qualified individual whose name is listed on a license issued by the Board. A listed qualified individual has the specific duty and authority to supervise and direct electrical contracting done by or in the name of a licensee of the Board on whose license the qualified individual is so listed.
87-43. Electrical contracting defined; licenses.
Electrical contracting shall be defined as engaging or offering to engage in the business of installing, maintaining, altering or repairing any electric work, wiring, devices, appliances or equipment. No person, partnership, firm or corporation shall engage, or offer to engage, in the business of electrical contracting within the State of North Carolina without having received a license in the applicable classification described in G.S. 87-43.3 from the State Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors in compliance with the provisions of this Article, regardless of whether the offer was made or the work was performed by a qualified individual as defined in G.S.87-41.1. In each separate place of business operated by an electrical contractor at least one listed qualified individual shall be regularly on active duty and shall have the specific duty and authority to supervise and direct all electrical wiring or electrical installation work done or made by such separate place of business. Every person, partnership, firm or corporation engaging in the business of electrical contracting shall display a current certificate of license in his principal place of business and in each branch place of business which he operates. Licenses issued hereunder shall be signed by the chairman and the secretary-treasurer of the Board, under the seal of the Board. A registry of all licenses issued to electrical contractors shall be kept by the secretary-treasurer of the Board, and said registry shall be open for public inspection during ordinary business hours.

87-47. Penalties imposed by Board; enforcement procedures.
(a1) The following activities are prohibited:
(7) Engaging in malpractice, unethical conduct, fraud, deceit, gross negligence, gross incompetence, or gross misconduct in the practice of electrical contracting.


Anyway... You all have been EXTREMELY helpful.
I am going to try and speak with the owner and discuss all of this before reporting him... He sounds young and maybe it is his first business... etc... I would hate to go ahead and report him immediately without an opportunity to correct the situation at hand...
God Bless,
Fran
Fran A Bulone
Registered Nurse First Assistant
Mom to Joseph 6 yrs old
Waxhaw, NC
Owner & Moderator PFAPA YahooGroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PFAPA

 

[jimwalker]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

You are being more than fair to him.Somehow i think most of whats upseting to you is the $800.He can not hurt you credit score untill gets a judgement and you refuse to pay.If your phone conversation does not resolve this then i suggest you take him to court as well as report him.Problem with unwritten contracts is that details get confused.Perhaps he forgot what he quated you.As to the work it seems that it was inspected,failed,was corrected,thats about normal even if it had been the master doing the work.Most likely he will back off on the $800.And tell him about this forum.We welcome new members.

 

[jbwhite]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

Originally posted by buloni:
As for a contract, we had a verbal contract to do the work.......He said yes and gave me a price. I added the two together and said this is the price. He said yes.

Sounds like you were thinking bid, he was thinking estimate.

I always write bids, and sign them. I give estimates over the phone.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

check your state's lean laws. i would pay the original amount discussed. at the same time i would send him this payment in a registered letter including a letter explaining the reason you are not intending to pay the extra $800.00. i would not make an issue about having unqualified personnel on the job since there is no law against it. you left yourself in a bad situation by not having a contract of some sort in writing. a verbel contract is binding, but it will be decided who is correct by an outsider (judge) listening to each side. he will probibly suggest splitting the $800.00 at this point because even his time in small claims court will cost him $400.00 of his time............... that will be up to you to decide????????

 

[jimwalker]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

I been to court a few times. It usually comes down to who the judge believes is totally honest.After that him or her can make an easy choice.The letter sounds like the right choice along with in the bottom left write in "payment in full" Willing to bet he cashes it.

 

[JROD]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

It would be in both of your best interests to resolve this issue without a 3rd party.
Did you discuss your concerns with the EC during the installation? Did you inquire as to the overage with the EC? If so, what was the reasoning for the extra $800?

It is important to note that in NC estimates are binding.

 

[charlie b]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

Originally posted by charlie tuna:I would pay the original amount discussed. At the same time i would send him this payment in a registered letter including a letter explaining the reason you are not intending to pay the extra $800.00.

I think this is a good way to proceed. But I'll add a caution: Anything you say, and especially anything you put in writing, can be used against you, if this dispute ever does make its way into a courtroom. So the less you say, the better.

Keep it simple; keep it short: one sentence, with no explanations or attempts at justification. Just say that the enclosed check represents payment in full for the agreed upon price of the job.

 

[stud696981]

Re: North Carolina Electricians Acceptable Practice?

I'm willing to bet the estimate over the phone was a Time and Materials job, but not clearly specified as T&M. If I was the EC on this I would have clearly said this is a T&M job, this is our hourly rate, and this is the approximate cost, but it can very so again the price is an approximate. Once arriving on the job the home owner would have been given our basic contract to sign which would clearly state the above.....thus no confusion when the bill comes.

The scary part here is that they installed two incorrect breakers. We all make mistakes, but it sounds like for a job like this they made too many and may not really be qualified to be doing electrical work.