not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

[spankynudledandy]

hi i just had an electrician install what were supposed to be grounded outlets into my house. there are 22 of them that when tested are not grounded and they have the three prong outlets on them with 2 wires only attached to them because my house is a 2 wire system. is this a code violation and do you know of any code of ethics that electricians should fallow? thank you for your time
Carly

 

[bphgravity]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

If what your are saying is accurate, than the electrican has provided you a total diservice and violated NEC requirements.

The code provides several methods for replacement of nongrounding-type receptacles. It would be wize for you to contact another licensed and insured electrical contractor to evaluate what work has been done and what it will take to correct this improper installation before you try to bring any action against the original installer.

Obviously this person either has no clue what they are doing, or they tried to pull a fast one by you.

If you are interested, the National Electrical Code section is 406.3(D) of the 2002 edition.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Before we get too excited make sure they are not on a gfci. If they are that is ok, but you need the sticker from the article Bryan pointed out in his post.

 

[iwire]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Did the contractor install a GFCI in the circuit, did they label the outlets as no equipment ground / GFCI protected?

NEC 406.3(D)(3)(b) and (c) Allow grounding type outlets to be installed where no ground exists if you use or feed it with a GFCI and label the outlets "no equipment ground and GFCI protected"

I would rather have an equipment ground.

[ July 02, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[spankynudledandy]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Thanks for your replies. The contractor did not install a GFCI Circuit, and they are not labeled in any way.

 

[bennie]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Is it safer to plug a TV set into a grounded receptacle or ungrounded?

 

[iwire]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Originally posted by bennie:
Is it safer to plug a TV set into a grounded receptacle or ungrounded?

I don't know

 

[charlie b]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Originally posted by bennie: Is it safer to plug a TV set into a grounded receptacle or ungrounded?

No.

 

[iwire]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Shouldn't the question be:

Is it safer to leave a two wire outlet in place rather than to replace it with a 3 wire outlet without a ground?

I think it is irresponsible to install a grounding type receptacle without a grounding conductor.

Or at the very least follow 406.3(D)(3)(b) or (c).

[ July 02, 2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[bennie]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

There is only three receptacles, in my home, that have a 3-wire cord and attachment device.

I have approx 55 convenience outlets. That leaves 52 receptacles that do not need an equipment ground conductor.

An electrician telling a customer that an ungrounded outlet is a danger and all wiring should be replaced, is guilty of fraud.

[ July 03, 2003, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[kqresq]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

If I hired a contractor to install grounded receptacles I would expect every one of those receptacles to be grounded and installed in accordance with whatever electrical codes are required by the AHJ. It does not matter one bit whether or not the end use requires a three prong outlet, it is a matter of getting what you paid for and of complying with the law where you live.

 

[hurk27]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

I read in a code help book once that it would be a better thing to install three prong receptacles and mark them "no-equipment ground" than to leave the two prong receptacles in place (as this forces the home owner to ether go out and buy a adaptor) which he will probably not hook the ground pig-tail up to a ground. or cut the ground prong off a perfectly good cord which will leave this appliance with out a ground forever.now which would you think he would do? (in a hurry) now which would you want him to do?
Just somthing to think about

 

[charlie b]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Originally posted by bennie: An electrician telling a customer that an ungrounded outlet is a danger and all wiring should be replaced, is guilty of fraud.

I agree. But an electrician who tells a customer that the outlets must be two-prong, OR three prong with ground, OR three-prong without ground but with a label saying ?no ground,? is laying the burden of decision where it belongs: on the customer.

 

[brian john]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Worst-case scenario. I have 50 outlets and 9 pieces of utilization equipment with 2 prong male plugs. In purchasing a PC I find I need a three-wire plug. I contract the electrician in question, he does his typical installation 3 wire outlets no EGC or GFCI. The brother of the electrician, that installed the outlets in question; wired my PC. When I plug in the PC to one of the new outlets in my basement office the frame of the PC is energized.
(His brother didn't need an EGC or GFCI why should Mr. PC use an insulating connector). Does anyone on this site want to risk this?

 

[bennie]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

On an ungrounded system, the chassis can be energized by a LG fault, or the active line conductor connected to the ground socket of the receptacle.

Reversal of polarity will not energize the chassis.

Computers will function on a two wire 120 volt circuit. The surge protector is also in the game.
Some loss of line filteration will develop.

The semi-conductor processors use the neutral for reference not the equipment ground.

[ July 03, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[brian john]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

AHH:

But bennie this is a grounded system without an EGC, the point of the basement is the concrete floor. Would I risk it? not on my or your life.

 

[bennie]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Brian: You have a good point, don't put a TV set in the basement.

 

[pierre]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

I always thought that surge protective devices needed an EGC to dissipate the transient?

Pierre

 

[bennie]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Transients are only produced by two sources, capacitor switching, and lightning.

The transients need only one path to ground.

The suppressors or arresters have to be across the system insulation.

[ July 04, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[brian john]

Re: not grounded 3 prong outlets installed

Bennie:

Most TV's are enclosed in a plastic enclosures, older TV were in wood enclosures, PC's have a metallic enclosure, big difference. Still would not risk installing an ungrounded branch circuit.