It's still 120v to ground.
Not per code, but safe?
- Thread starter junkhound
- Start date
- Status
It's still 120v to ground.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Depends. Is the primary use associated with a residence?
...but...
The building I put up on my pasture ground makes it Ag.
or does it?
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
That doesn't matter. You only need two hots and an EG for 240v loads. The EG can and should be bonded to the well casing, etc. The grounded conductor (neutral) of a feeder or branch circuit should not.
letgomywago
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and Oregon coast
- Occupation
- residential electrician
It's definitely "other than dwelling unit"
The majority of other countries use some form of 220-240V lighting in residential for quite some time now.
Sberry
Senior Member
- Location
- Brethren, MI
- Occupation
- farmer electrician
Are we in another country?
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Have you visited a large costal city recently?
junkhound
Senior Member
- Location
- Renton, WA
- Occupation
- EE, power electronics specialty
update:
apparently the EGC (bare wire in the UF) is not connected somewhere.
Well casing (bonded to the EGC of the UF cable) read 122V and 118 V line to ground on LoZ setting on FLuke meter.
Connected 250 ohm load to one side, now get 240 V l-l, but 100V on loaded side, 140V on unloaded side.
Open bare wire in the UF somewhere, must not be a single wire, will need to find the open connection.
At least now I know the well casing in series with whateve is on the feed side (poco plus house grounds) is 50 ohms. Well is likely under 1 ohm, the other grounds 49 ohms..
apparently the EGC (bare wire in the UF) is not connected somewhere.
Well casing (bonded to the EGC of the UF cable) read 122V and 118 V line to ground on LoZ setting on FLuke meter.
Connected 250 ohm load to one side, now get 240 V l-l, but 100V on loaded side, 140V on unloaded side.
Open bare wire in the UF somewhere, must not be a single wire, will need to find the open connection.
At least now I know the well casing in series with whateve is on the feed side (poco plus house grounds) is 50 ohms. Well is likely under 1 ohm, the other grounds 49 ohms..
g-and-h_electric
Senior Member
- Location
- northern illinois
- Occupation
- supervising electrician
If not for the now questionable EGC to the well casing, I had an idea for shed lighting....... A nice solar panel, charge controller and 12 (24?) volt led lighting in the shed....
Oh well just a thought to throw out
Howard
Oh well just a thought to throw out
Howard
junkhound
Senior Member
- Location
- Renton, WA
- Occupation
- EE, power electronics specialty
another update:
RE: a Jan 2014 WA state electrical inspection permit signoff sticker.
Somebody slipped one past the inspector back then- I got to looking for the UF ground wire break in detail. Initially I saw the white (with black tape) and the black and a 12 AWG ground wire in the panel for the well pump breaker. Panel fairly crowed near the top so had not really looked by moving all other wires out of the way. Originally assume UF came into main panel. Not so.
Lo and behold, the romex coming into the box (well hidden behind other cables) was a 12-2 w/ 16 AWG ground wire, with a 12AWG wire nutted to it right at the entrance! Obviously using the grounding conductor in the UF as a current carrying conductor with that 16 AWG hidden link is not safe.
Was going to try to trace in the house, but the attic was 120F yesterday and had no insulation mask with me.
Probably end up with a new cable anyway....
Oh well (pun intended) At least the house is a few miles south of the bottom edge of the Puget Sound lobe of the last glacier, so no rocks in soil and easy to trench.
RE: No idea when the UF installed.
Must have been between 1960 and 1970 when the 16 AWG EGC was allowed in 12-2 NM. -IIRC the 1959 code allowed 16 AWG EGC?
The electrician who did the 2013/2014 new panel install probably knew the inspector would flag the 16 AWG EGC so did a 'hide this detail' job and the NM is slpiced to the UF 'somewhere'.
Found one other detail in the attic before abandoning the search due to heat - a box with a 12-3 wg cable with no terminations, no idea where the other end is, but suspect that the 2013 electrician did start to replace the well feed, but gave up due to difficulty or HO objections to cost??? Who knows, but interesting mystery.
RE: a Jan 2014 WA state electrical inspection permit signoff sticker.
Somebody slipped one past the inspector back then- I got to looking for the UF ground wire break in detail. Initially I saw the white (with black tape) and the black and a 12 AWG ground wire in the panel for the well pump breaker. Panel fairly crowed near the top so had not really looked by moving all other wires out of the way. Originally assume UF came into main panel. Not so.
Lo and behold, the romex coming into the box (well hidden behind other cables) was a 12-2 w/ 16 AWG ground wire, with a 12AWG wire nutted to it right at the entrance! Obviously using the grounding conductor in the UF as a current carrying conductor with that 16 AWG hidden link is not safe.
Was going to try to trace in the house, but the attic was 120F yesterday and had no insulation mask with me.
Probably end up with a new cable anyway....
Oh well (pun intended) At least the house is a few miles south of the bottom edge of the Puget Sound lobe of the last glacier, so no rocks in soil and easy to trench.
RE: No idea when the UF installed.
Must have been between 1960 and 1970 when the 16 AWG EGC was allowed in 12-2 NM. -IIRC the 1959 code allowed 16 AWG EGC?
The electrician who did the 2013/2014 new panel install probably knew the inspector would flag the 16 AWG EGC so did a 'hide this detail' job and the NM is slpiced to the UF 'somewhere'.
Found one other detail in the attic before abandoning the search due to heat - a box with a 12-3 wg cable with no terminations, no idea where the other end is, but suspect that the 2013 electrician did start to replace the well feed, but gave up due to difficulty or HO objections to cost??? Who knows, but interesting mystery.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
We frequently pulled spares to attics and/or basements. Especially on remodels when we knew it would be a future PIA. I hope whomsoever followed us appreciate it.
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
I wonder what all those sections looked like when the shed circuit was installed, assuming it was 20+ years ago. I imagine at least 250.32(B) wasn't a problem.
I agree with the OP subject, 'not per code. But safe' ... until something happens to the 12awg neutral/EGC. At least the shed circuit will stop working and give someone a clue.
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