Number of breakers in panel

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dm9289

Industrial Maintenance Electrician
Location
Pennsylvania
Occupation
Industrial process repair/ maintenance Electrician
A home inspector told a home seller that they needed a new service because if you added up the numbers on the individual breakers they were more than the main.
Ex 200 amp main the individuals add up to 260 so the home inspector said no good.
I do not believe this to be true nor could I find it in the NEC, am I correct????

I suggested that we could do a load calculation for the customer/ home inspector. Does that make sense?
Btw small house 200amp service I would be surprised to calc anymore than 80amp.
 
Tell this to the seller: OK. So I have a one liter bottle of wine. But the total capacity of the wine glasses sitting on my bar shelves is over 3 liters. So that means I need to buy more wine, right?

Or try this instead: The number posted on a breaker's handle tells us how much load it can handle. It does not tell us how much load happens to be connected to that breaker. In my house, for example, I happen to know that one particular 20 amp breaker is only connected to two duplex receptacles. We normally count that as a total load of 3 amps. But I also know that, because of where they are installed, those two receptacles are drawing exactly zero amps at the present moment, and that has been true for a very long time. This is a non-issue, and no load calculation is necessary or appropriate.

Finally, you could tell the seller they should consider asking for at least a partial refund from the home inspector, as that person obviously did not do an adequate job, in that they have an inadequate understanding of their job.
 
dm9289 said:
I do not believe this to be true nor could I find it in the NEC, am I correct????
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408.30 has the answer you need. The 200 amp panel just has to be rated higher than the calculated load. I just spent about 20 seconds doing a very rough calculation, assuming a 1500 SF house and the usual appliances, using big number assumptions and none of the allowable demand factor. My answer was 127 amps. You could spend about 2 minutes and put something down on paper, using what you know about the house and also using big number assumptions. It might be over 80 amps, but won't be anywhere close to 200 amps. Show that to the owner and also show the article I cited, and this issue will disappear.
 
charlie b said:
408.30 has the answer you need. The 200 amp panel just has to be rated higher than the calculated load. I just spent about 20 seconds doing a very rough calculation, assuming a 1500 SF house and the usual appliances, using big number assumptions and none of the allowable demand factor. My answer was 127 amps. You could spend about 2 minutes and put something down on paper, using what you know about the house and also using big number assumptions. It might be over 80 amps, but won't be anywhere close to 200 amps. Show that to the owner and also show the article I cited, and this issue will disappear.
Click to expand...
That’s what I figured they called in a panic. I have them looking up some stickers, sink disposal, dish washer, dryer etc. I will put them together a load calc and Thank you
 
charlie b said:
408.30 has the answer you need. The 200 amp panel just has to be rated higher than the calculated load. I just spent about 20 seconds doing a very rough calculation, assuming a 1500 SF house and the usual appliances, using big number assumptions and none of the allowable demand factor. My answer was 127 amps. You could spend about 2 minutes and put something down on paper, using what you know about the house and also using big number assumptions. It might be over 80 amps, but won't be anywhere close to 200 amps. Show that to the owner and also show the article I cited, and this issue will disappear.
Click to expand...
Thank for the reference and your reply it gave me a good laugh with the wine
 
I don't even see why a load calculation is needed but I understand that you want to help the customer. If one is required then maybe the HI should do one. Why should the customer have to pay for an electrician to do the calculation when the HI's wrong? Also the HI needs a refresher course in electrical inspection.
 
If running a simple load calc is all it takes, I would do that pro bono and provide the results as a PDF for the customer. Good relation with a potential future customer.
 
In my homes 200 amp panel the breakers add up to 480 amps and putting an ammeter on the mains at different times over the years the highest reading has been under 30. If I were to purposely take a reading with the heat, oven, range, water heater, and dryer all running at the same time I still would not be close to 200 amps

Roger
 
I like home inspectors, back in the day they generated some decent business for me when I was doing residential work. What I argue with them about all of the time is when they call out non-issues for "further evaluation by a competant electrican' or something like that. Those non-issues cost someone money and they can kill a real estate sale. I've personally delt with some grossly incompetent, horrible ones (and some good ones) when buying and selling homes.
 
I forgot to mention, I have a spare two pole 50 amp breaker in my tally.

Roger
 
infinity said:
I don't even see why a load calculation is needed but I understand that you want to help the customer. If one is required then maybe the HI should do one. Why should the customer have to pay for an electrician to do the calculation when the HI's wrong? Also the HI needs a refresher course in electrical inspection.
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I have certification as Master Electrician and Commercial inspector but I work in manufacturing so I basically inspect my own researched work. This is a son of a friend it sounds like they are looking for some late leverage for a discount.
 
infinity said:
I like home inspectors, back in the day they generated some decent business for me when I was doing residential work. What I argue with them about all of the time is when they call out non-issues for "further evaluation by a competant electrican' or something like that. Those non-issues cost someone money and they can kill a real estate sale. I've personally delt with some grossly incompetent, horrible ones (and some good ones) when buying and selling homes.
Click to expand...
Yep they are inspecting so many disciplines it’s hard for them to be good at any one discipline. It took me a very long time to just get my Electrical certificates
 
480sparky said:
If running a simple load calc is all it takes, I would do that pro bono and provide the results as a PDF for the customer. Good relation with a potential future customer.
Click to expand...
Yes I will it’s a friends son supposed to close Monday
 
infinity said:
I don't even see why a load calculation is needed but I understand that you want to help the customer. If one is required then maybe the HI should do one. Why should the customer have to pay for an electrician to do the calculation when the HI's wrong? Also the HI needs a refresher course in electrical inspection.
Click to expand...
That's the best way for the inspector to try to prove his claim.
 
No one is going to argue that the HI is correct by determining the service adequacy by adding up all of the numbers on the circuit breakers. I'm sure that somewhere in the HI's SOP this is spelled out. He needs to be called on it because it's just wrong.
 
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