Obsolete AFCI replacement

[g-and-h_electric]

Hey guys....

I have a customer with a GE 2 pole AFCI, (vintage 2004) which is nuisance tripping. ABB / GE no longer makes 2 pole AFCI's.

Therefore I am going to install a 4 or maybe 6 circuit sub and install a couple current production 2 pole AFCI's to protect the affected circuits. Therefore the question is this.... Which brand of AFCI have we as a group found to have the fewest nuisance trips and least amount of call backs. I just want to do this once and done!

Thank you


de Howard

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Since the AFCI rule only applies to 120 volt circuits, the only reason for a two pole would be for a multiwire branch circuit. Single pole GE AFCIs can be used on multiwire branch circuit when you install handle ties between the two single pole breakers.

 

[g-and-h_electric]

Don:

If it is a 3 wire MWBC, ( I havent pulled the panel cover yet), I am fine with handle ties, but what do I do with the single neutral? Should I tie both load neutrals at the breakers together and connect them to the single load neutral?

Again the sub panel isnt a big deal, I am more concerned about reliability, cust wants that too . He is less concerned about cost than having things right.


de Howard

 

[tortuga]

You can land it on either breaker.

https://search.abb.com/library/Download.aspx?DocumentID=1TQC1130Z0001&LanguageCode=en&DocumentPartId&Action=Launch

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don:

If it is a 3 wire MWBC, ( I havent pulled the panel cover yet), I am fine with handle ties, but what do I do with the single neutral? Should I tie both load neutrals at the breakers together and connect them to the single load neutral?

Again the sub panel isnt a big deal, I am more concerned about reliability, cust wants that too . He is less concerned about cost than having things right.


de Howard

That I can't help you with, have never installed an AFCI device and there are none in my house.

 

[tortuga]

If I am not mistaken the newer AFCI's don't do any ground fault protection and the older ones did have some GFCI / RCD protection at class B levels (30 ma).
So the neutral only needs to be monitored by one breaker with the newer style.
While on the older style it worked like a GFCI breaker.

 

[letgomywago]

If I am not mistaken the newer AFCI's don't do any ground fault protection and the older ones did have some GFCI / RCD protection at class B levels (30 ma).
So the neutral only needs to be monitored by one breaker with the newer style.
While on the older style it worked like a GFCI breaker.

Some brands still are holding onto it for some models of their afcis particularly the ones with pigtails for older panels.

 

[g-and-h_electric]

Well guys, I finally had to change the breakers.... the problems I was having followed the breakers in question..... I actually found the GE CAFCI's in stock at Lowes on Saturday.

A special thank you to tortuga for posting the new diagram from GE (ABB). I was able to repurpose the origianl handle ties from the double pole breakers to remain compliant with current code. Not only does everything work right, BUT if only 1 side trips we can now see which side did!

All seems to be good now, again thank you all for the help!


Howard

 

[tthh]

Similar topic...lot's of multiwire circuits out there and no combo AFCI/GFCI breakers, much less tandem ones. At least without tandems you can always change out a crowded panel. Not sure that the breaker selection will change. You're stuck with ganging AFCIs as the thread mentions, assuming they don't need the neutral except for their own electronics power and add GFCI receptacles or vice versa. And, no combo AFCI/GFCI receptacles that also alarm if tripped. I just hate having for people to hunt things down.

 

[letgomywago]

Similar topic...lot's of multiwire circuits out there and no combo AFCI/GFCI breakers, much less tandem ones. At least without tandems you can always change out a crowded panel. Not sure that the breaker selection will change. You're stuck with ganging AFCIs as the thread mentions, assuming they don't need the neutral except for their own electronics power and add GFCI receptacles or vice versa. And, no combo AFCI/GFCI receptacles that also alarm if tripped. I just hate having for people to hunt things down.

They'll get made eventually so long as there's a market.

 

[macmikeman]

They'll get made eventually so long as there's a market.

So please correct me if I am wrong, the first code cycle for AFCI protection was dwelling bedroom receptacle outlets in 1990 NEC. That was 33 years ago. Define eventually? It took less than 33 years to go from double wing two seat airplanes to jet fighter airplanes.

 

[letgomywago]

So please correct me if I am wrong, the first code cycle for AFCI protection was dwelling bedroom receptacle outlets in 1990 NEC. That was 33 years ago. Define eventually? It took less than 33 years to go from double wing two seat airplanes to jet fighter airplanes.

Just post how much you'd pay and I'm sure in a year there will be a product available so long as what you post is high enough.