Odd Question

[muskiedog]

I think I know but then I normally do not know what I think I know???

I was out at our wave pool facility making sure equipment was grounded, such as pop machines, equipment in the concessions stand and I happened to touch the fiberglass light pole and it lite up my ac sensor stick. Lights are not on. 277 volt. Is the 277 generating enough of a electric magnetic field to light the stick or do I have a grounding issue???? Cement poles I do not have this problem.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think I know but then I normally do not know what I think I know???

I was out at our wave pool facility making sure equipment was grounded, such as pop machines, equipment in the concessions stand and I happened to touch the fiberglass light pole and it lite up my ac sensor stick. Lights are not on. 277 volt. Is the 277 generating enough of a electric magnetic field to light the stick or do I have a grounding issue???? Cement poles I do not have this problem.

I would not trust a light stick as there are many factors that would give false readings.

By light stick I assume you mean a non contact voltage detector such as the one below

 

[480sparky]

I would not trust a light stick as there are many factors that would give false readings....

AKA "Idiot Pens" or "Idiot Sticks."

They have their place, but cannot provide life-or-death descisions about whether something is truly energized or not.

 

[SiddMartin]

take your voltmeter from the pole to ground see if you get voltage

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I would expect that the pole has a static charge from the wind blowing across it. You can make a lot of the noncontact testers beep or indicate power by running them through you hair or across you clothes.

 

[ultramegabob]

I would not trust a light stick as there are many factors that would give false readings.

By light stick I assume you mean a non contact voltage detector such as the one below

I absolutely despise those things, I have aquired several over the years, not sure how exactly, I got one a while back in a combo pack with some other tools, I let my kids play with it, they like to rub it on stuff an make it light up. I dont care for them because they only work "sometimes", or maybe even "most of the time" I just dont trust them, I prefer to use a meter...

 

[busman]

I agree they aren't reliable for determining whether voltage is present. However, my fluke has NEVER failed to register a real voltage and caused me to get shocked. I think they give a lot of false positive readings, but I've never experienced a false negative (other's have reported this).

I'll keep using it for my safety.

Mark

 

[iwire]

I absolutely despise those things,.

I have one at all times.

The two large companies I have worked for over the last 11 years have provided them to all employees and require that we carry them.

I see false positives but never false negatives assuming you know the limitations of the tester and check it's operation before using. I typically rub them on my sleeve to verify it has a good battery and is operational.

The operator also has to know it will not work through MC or when checking a cord you have to move it around the cord to find the hot conductor.

I prefer to use a meter...

Thats cool but per OSHA you have to suit up in PPE to use a contact meter. The jobs we work we have to comply with OSHA regs.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I see false positives but never false negatives assuming you know the limitations of the tester and check it's operation before using. I typically rub them on my sleeve to verify it has a good battery and is operational.
Thats cool but per OSHA you have to suit up in PPE to use a contact meter. The jobs we work we have to comply with OSHA regs.

First the most common false negative is when testing cables like NM or SO where the paper inside the cable is wet.
Second, the only difference between the use of PPE for a contact v noncontact tester is the voltage rated gloves. The arc flash PPE does not change.

 

[iwire]

First the most common false negative is when testing cables like NM or SO where the paper inside the cable is wet.

I have never seen or heard of that if you run the tester around the circumference of the cable. I use then all the time and have never had any incident of a false negative.

Second, the only difference between the use of PPE for a contact v noncontact tester is the voltage rated gloves. The arc flash PPE does not change.

You lost me Don, if there are no exposed live parts I need no PPE.

If there are exposed parts I need full PPE for that level.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Bob,
It is my understanding that you can be exposed to the arc flash even without exposed energized parts. I guess it make a big difference where you are using the tester, but if you are within the arc flash boundry, then you need arc flash PPE, even if you don't need voltage protective PPE.

 

[K8MHZ]

I would not trust a light stick as there are many factors that would give false readings.

By light stick I assume you mean a non contact voltage detector such as the one below

I have used several brands but the one in the picture has worked the best for me. It will even tell me which side of the Romex has a the hot wire.

There are now tools that have a tracer built into the handle. I don't think they are made as a tracer with a screwdriver for instance, rather the other way around. Use them to work with and if someone turns the power on or you get backfed, the tracer will alert as soon as the screwdriver gets near a hot conductor

 

[pbeasley]

Fluke has a couple that are dual indicating... blue as you approach the source and red as get closer. One of them even has a flashlight built in

FLUKE LVD2 Volt Light

 

[mivey]

I use both the non-contact beeping type, and the contact neon bulb type (as well as a 240 volt bulb in a rubber socket with ballast wire leads, and a meter)

 

[POWER_PIG]

Im not sure why an electrician would consider "tick" pens an idiot stick. I have had many a false hot reading but never a null reading on a hot circuit.
I would not rely on such devices for precise readings, not even to power check an added plug, but for demo work and maybe to insure a ckt is off right before you grab it then I say they are worth having.

 

[JohnJ0906]

Like any other tool or tester, you need to know their proper uses, and their limitations.

 

[zog]

I agree they aren't reliable for determining whether voltage is present. However, my fluke has NEVER failed to register a real voltage and caused me to get shocked. I think they give a lot of false positive readings, but I've never experienced a false negative (other's have reported this).

I'll keep using it for my safety.

Mark

You are wrong and you have been lucky.

From training thousands of electrician over the past 2 decades I have found that most electricians carry one of these and less than 1% understand how they work. Most do not usderstand the dangers of the false negatives they can give.

Everyone who has one of these needs to read this attachment.

 

[zog]

First the most common false negative is when testing cables like NM or SO where the paper inside the cable is wet.
Second, the only difference between the use of PPE for a contact v noncontact tester is the voltage rated gloves. The arc flash PPE does not change.

Mostly a true statement. Sock protection PPE (Gloves) is required anytime you cross the RAB, a non contact meter may allow you to be outside the RAB but it may need to be a hotstick.

The RAB for 51-300V is "Avoid contact", so we are good there
The RAB for 301-600V is 1'. So it would need to be hotstick mounted.

You need PPE for arc flash when you cross the Arc Flash boundry. The tables dont change for voltage measurements if the energized conductors are exposed or not, as don mentioned.

 

[zog]

In addition to the warnings in the attachment I posted keep in mind that these do not owrk on DC and they will not work on 3 phase systems where the conductors are close together and equal distances apart from one another, the 3 fields cancel each other out.

 

[POWER_PIG]

25+ years in this trade, and never a false reading as far as an energized ckt. not reading hot. No meter would be considered 100% accurate when you add human error, bad leads, crappy eqip. and so on,,,,,,,,Im just saying the tick pens Ive always used (many different brands) have never let me down *knock on wood* I have however. had eroneous readings from a new sqD wiggy that had a coil go bad. I can also recall a greenlee multimeter having an enternal problem with a lead socket.All in all I believe in the tools/meters I use daily They all have certainly hit, more than missed, but I do agree the possibility of a disaster is always lurking , no matter how careful you are, or what tools/ practices you use.
Im also certain you can find disclaimers on most all products we buy in relation to this trade.