Odd Question

[zog]

25+ years in this trade, and never a false reading as far as an energized ckt. not reading hot. No meter would be considered 100% accurate when you add human error, bad leads, crappy eqip. and so on,,,,,,,,Im just saying the tick pens Ive always used (many different brands) have never let me down *knock on wood* I have however. had eroneous readings from a new sqD wiggy that had a coil go bad. I can also recall a greenlee multimeter having an enternal problem with a lead socket.All in all I believe in the tools/meters I use daily They all have certainly hit, more than missed, but I do agree the possibility of a disaster is always lurking , no matter how careful you are, or what tools/ practices you use.
Im also certain you can find disclaimers on most all products we buy in relation to this trade.

So you already knew the theory on how they actually worked and the problems and precautions of using them on 3 phase, DC, or on an insulated ladder? Or are you saying you have just been lucky?

 

[brian john]

I have used some of these, but always seem to lose them or give them away.

As for 100% reliability, ALWAYS TEST YOUR TESTER and test more that one way.

Be careful, be safe.

 

[quogueelectric]

I allways carry both the tick and meter. tick tywrapped right to my hardhat and tester on my toolbelt. Every jerk that doesnt carry them wants to borrow them. That would be a NO.

 

[iaov]

I always carry a "sniffer" . I have one in every tool bag too. Yes they will show induced voltages wich requires further investigating at times. I have several different brands but the ones I use the most are made by Fluke. If my sniffer lights up I do not touch the wire!! Sometimes induced voltage will show up on the DVM. If I think its induced I'll test it with my Wiggy.

 

[POWER_PIG]

So you already knew the theory on how they actually worked and the problems and precautions of using them on 3 phase, DC, or on an insulated ladder? Or are you saying you have just been lucky?

I absolutely do understand the theory behind how they work, and the hazards accociated with using ticks soley as means to check a circuit for present voltage. Also , yes Ive been very lucky not to have been killed/injured by a false reading from my wiggy or my greenlee multimeter, OR my tick pen. *knock on wood* I don't see any means of voltage testing as fool proof, thats all Im saying.

 

[zog]

I absolutely do understand the theory behind how they work, and the hazards accociated with using ticks soley as means to check a circuit for present voltage. Also , yes Ive been very lucky not to have been killed/injured by a false reading from my wiggy or my greenlee multimeter, OR my tick pen. *knock on wood* I don't see any means of voltage testing as fool proof, thats all Im saying.

You should toss that wiggy, not allowed on CATIII systems anymore.

 

[tom baker]

One way to look at a volt stick is that is verifies the presence of voltage but the absence.
Also understand how a volt stick works, it depends on your body to form a capacitor to ground. It may not work on a ladder

 

[LarryFine]

You should toss that wiggy, not allowed on CATIII systems anymore.

Even CAT-III wiggies? http://www.knoppinc.com/

 

[brian john]

You should toss that wiggy, not allowed on CATIII systems anymore.

I know, I know...BUT I SO LOVE THIS TOOL...

 

[LarryFine]

I know, I know...BUT I SO LOVE THIS TOOL...

Brian, look up two posts. You know, up there.

 

[quogueelectric]

I have never seen or heard of that if you run the tester around the circumference of the cable. I use then all the time and have never had any incident of a false neg

He is correct if the nm paper gets wet it acts like a shield and the tick doesnt read only when you get to the individual conductors will it read properly I have experienced this often. Pickup truck vs van theory

 

[iwire]

He is correct if the nm paper gets wet it acts like a shield and the tick doesnt read only when you get to the individual conductors will it read properly I have experienced this often. Pickup truck vs van theory

So I can assume you scrapped that NM?

 

[zog]

Even CAT-III wiggies? http://www.knoppinc.com/

That is not a Wiggy, dosent say "Wiggy" anywhere, when I said Wiggy I meant a Wiggy, which has been discontinued due to safety concerns. Many companies have outright barred them from use.

A solenoid depends on the movement of a ferrite slug in response to the energization and de-energization of an electromagnetic coil. The indication function of these testers depends on a spring, which drives a mechanical pointer. The spring restrains the slug, which slides to one end of its chamber or the other, depending on whether the coil has enough energy to cause the slug to overcome the opposing force of the spring. Unfortunately, solenoid-based testers have several shortcomings:

1.The amount of energy required restricts their sensitivity. In the US, a useful solenoid-based tester will measure voltages up to 480 V or more. But the poor dynamic range of the magnetics limits the ability of such a device to detect voltages below about 100 V.

2. Solenoid-based testers have relatively low input impedance— 10 kilohms at the upper end, but often as low as 1 kilohm. So solenoid based testers can easily make their presence felt in a circuit as loads and interfere with the operation of that circuit. The relatively high current draw also creates enough heat that the testers can quickly overheat, even to the point of damaging the tester. Thats why most say they are for intermitent use only.

3.These testers are generally unable to comply to IEC 61010 due to excessive
current draw, poor dielectric withstand performance and impulse destruction due to transients originating from the mains. This is one reason many companies forbid them altogether.

4. The high current in solenoidbased testers has another downside. You can easily carry a lethal current through the tester. Wearing insulated gloves can reduce the shock hazard, but you’ll also be risking an arc hazard with each use.

 

[POWER_PIG]

Yeah,,,what he said:roll: :roll:

 

[LarryFine]

That is not a Wiggy, dosent say "Wiggy" anywhere, when I said Wiggy I meant a Wiggy, which has been discontinued due to safety concerns. Many companies have outright barred them from use.

I, as I'm sure a lot of others here, took your use of the word to be generic for solenoid testers, not brand-specific. I've seen Klein and SqD Wiggies, as well as Wiggington. Which one are you referring to?

A solenoid depends on the movement of a ferrite slug in response to the energization and de-energization of an electromagnetic coil. The indication function of these testers depends on a spring, which drives a mechanical pointer. The spring restrains the slug, which slides to one end of its chamber or the other, depending on whether the coil has enough energy to cause the slug to overcome the opposing force of the spring.

Well, yeah. That sounds like a solenoid to me. A linear motor. As Hawkeye Pierce said, "You don't have to tell us the incredibly obvious; the merely obvious will do."

Unfortunately, solenoid-based testers have several shortcomings:

You call them shortcomings, I call them acceptable characteristics, and no single tester is right for every task; otherwise, one would dominate the market.

1.The amount of energy required restricts their sensitivity. In the US, a useful solenoid-based tester will measure voltages up to 480 V or more. But the poor dynamic range of the magnetics limits the ability of such a device to detect voltages below about 100 V.

Well, that's because a solenoid tester is not the proper tester for specific voltage readings. "The amount of energy required restricts their" application. It does what it's designed to do extrememly well.

2. Solenoid-based testers have relatively low input impedance— 10 kilohms at the upper end, but often as low as 1 kilohm. So solenoid based testers can easily make their presence felt in a circuit as loads and interfere with the operation of that circuit. The relatively high current draw also creates enough heat that the testers can quickly overheat, even to the point of damaging the tester. Thats why most say they are for intermitent use only.

A) The relatively low impedance is a desirable feature of the correct tester for the expected power levels being tested. It separates induced phantom voltage from real power, and doesn't require taking the eyes off the work to read.

B) Again, a solenoid tester is not the correct tester for all applications; certainly not for low-power control circuits. There, a high-impednace voltmeter is the tool to use.

C) Susceptability to heating with constant energization is to be expected and easily avoided, with correct usage of the brain in charge of the tester's use.

3.These testers are generally unable to comply to IEC 61010 due to excessive current draw, poor dielectric withstand performance and impulse destruction due to transients originating from the mains. This is one reason many companies forbid them altogether.

I never asked anyone to use on against their wishes, and I've never seen one self-destruct. I use K-60's, so if one has exploded, I would like to know.

4. The high current in solenoidbased testers has another downside. You can easily carry a lethal current through the tester. Wearing insulated gloves can reduce the shock hazard, but you’ll also be risking an arc hazard with each use.

A lethal current? You mean if you place yourself in series with the tester? No kidding! I would treat any tester as if it has a low-enough impedance to do that!

I have heard some people claim that placing one across an open fuse can somehow subject the tester to the full current of the load. We know the impedance stops that from happening.


Like I said, no single tool does everything, nor claims to.

 

[zog]

I dont care what you use but the wiggy type meters are not allowed anymore by many companies, most dont meet the IEC CAt III requirements, NONE of them meet the CAT IV requirements, they can give false readings and SQ-D stopped making them because of these safety concerns.

This topic has already been discussed at length in this forum. Do a search, and be safe.

 

[POWER_PIG]

As I said,,,,,,No instument is 100% fool proof when it comes to the diversity of situations in this trade. I will not toss my "wiggy" nor will I toss my "tick-pen" just like any of my tools, they have a place and a purpose and it's up to the user to know how and when they are to be used.
Iam curous to know what Zog totes with him to every job, up and down every ladder, in every attic, under every house, etc.....a old simpson the size of a shoebox maybe? :smile:

 

[wbalsam1]

As an electrical inspector, I've been able to put these little light-tipped indicators to good work. One of the benefits of my cheap little pocket model is that it shows "open grounds". With plastic switch boxes it will light up if the egc's are not tied into the switches.
I've found many bathroom wall fixtures and kitchen pendant fixtures that did not have the equipment ground tied in. Even electric heat not properly terminated. If my little light went off at this fiberglass pole mentioned by the original poster, I would look in the junction box at the base to determine whether the egc was properly tied in. There are lots of different types and I'm only addressing mine.

 

[zog]

As I said,,,,,,No instument is 100% fool proof when it comes to the diversity of situations in this trade. I will not toss my "wiggy" nor will I toss my "tick-pen" just like any of my tools, they have a place and a purpose and it's up to the user to know how and when they are to be used.
Iam curous to know what Zog totes with him to every job, up and down every ladder, in every attic, under every house, etc.....a old simpson the size of a shoebox maybe? :smile:

Never been in an attic (For work), or under a house. I do acceptance testing of power systems for mostly nuclear power plants, but also commercial power plants, steel mills, and heavy industrial.

Havent seen a simpson since the navy

I carry over a million dollars in test equipment in my truck to nearly every job.
Here is what is on my truck.
Doble M4000 (Pf test set, run by Panasonic toughbook laptop)
PD sensors and test set
VLF hipot
Tan Delta module
2 DLRO's
10kV megger
2 1000V meggers
Priamary injection test set, 50kA
About 10 seconday injection test sets
2 TTR's (Single and 3 phase)
Winding resistance test set
Manta relay test set
Arbittier 92A
Fluke 87
Fluke RMS PQ meters
EBITE battery impenance test set
AMEC fall of potential test set
Portable DGA analysier, sample bottles and syringes
40 Cal flash suit
HRC 2 kit
Class 0 and 2 gloves
2/0 Groud cables (3 sets, bus, cable, and ball stud clamps)
Generators, light stands, cords, etc. ..
Some other stuff I cant think of right now

I have a trailer that I pull to rebuild jobs, 40 FT, Air conditioned with
480 Generator
Bead blaster
Parts cleaner
Tumbler
BPS
Metal fab tools
Stocked with breaker parts

 

[LarryFine]

What?! No Wiggy?! No non-contact tester?! No plug-in GFCI tester?! No 2-wire neon tester?!

And you call yourself a professional!