'official' listed use for a basic 4 square box

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Pierre C Belarge said:
When mounted on the wall, it will not be handled in the same fashion, as when it is hanging.
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True but it does not change the fact that the kos can be pushed in and contact a terminal on a device. I've always found it odd that those types of boxes are allowed.

From my experience, in most places that have cord drop type receptacles and wall receptacles, the wall receptacles take a far worse beating than the hanging ones.
 
electricmanscott said:
True but it does not change the fact that the kos can be pushed in and contact a terminal on a device. I've always found it odd that those types of boxes are allowed.

From my experience, in most places that have cord drop type receptacles and wall receptacles, the wall receptacles take a far worse beating than the hanging ones.
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When they run the fork lift into the hanging boxes they swing in the wind, the wall mounted boxes do not fair as well.
 
brian john said:
When they run the fork lift into the hanging boxes they swing in the wind, the wall mounted boxes do not fair as well.
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Until there are new wiring methods for electrical installs subject
to "Fork-LIft Nascar" and "Fork-Lift Electrical Demolition Derby"
there is nothing you can do!You can install ridgid conduit and
suppport it every 2" and it will be destoryed in the "Fork-Lift Zone".
Install all your conduit as high as the structure permits.The fork-lift
operators will figure out a way to get up there and destory it.
I've had many years working in Industrial Parks and dealing with
many Fork-Lift areas.:D
 
walk around any Costco (around here at least) and you'll see tons of these things hanging down to supply power to frequently moved displays... 4" box hanging on the end of a cord, that is. how do they get away with it?
 
Not all inspectors are looking at the same thing.


In the area I work in, most of the inspectors worked as residential electricians before becoming inspectors. Some have never seen large installations or equipment associated with such installations, such as ATS, UPS - with bypass, large services, GFP, etc...

We had one inspector approve a whole floor of a building recently over the phone. He said it was a "highly engineered job" and he did not have to go. Go figure. I bet he did not go, because he does not know what to look for.
 
One thing I've noticed in a few Home Depot stores with the way they have their cord drops set up is the use of what looks like a custom made drawn 4" box with only about 4 knockouts total on the box (one cenetered on each side). They aren't normal looking steel box knockouts, either. They look like they are a lot harder to break apart because they have four tabs holding them on as opposed to the typical singular. I guess this is their solution to the concern about the knockouts being pushed in.
 
kornbln said:
One thing I've noticed in a few Home Depot stores with the way they have their cord drops set up is the use of what looks like a custom made drawn 4" box with only about 4 knockouts total on the box (one cenetered on each side). They aren't normal looking steel box knockouts, either. They look like they are a lot harder to break apart because they have four tabs holding them on as opposed to the typical singular. I guess this is their solution to the concern about the knockouts being pushed in.
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That doesn't get around the code rule that requires the hub to be a part of the box.
 
I dont think using a bell box meets the spirit of the requirement for intergal hub. The bell boxes are cast aluminum (or mystery metal if theyre chinese ones) and I have seen ones used on portable cords that have cracked from being dropped. I prefer the actual pentant boxes like those from ericcson, woodhead, cooper, etc.
 
Here's what I have done for years:

I use an Appleton malleable iron single/double gain box that has one 3/4" hub, with a kellems threaded into it, 12/10-3 SO hard use up through another kellems grip basket type that will hang on a heavy duty hook lagged or bolted to the structure, with about 2' of the cord like a drip loop to a twist lock plug/receptacle. this allows for easy replacement if something does fail or for easy removal when not needed. I had a photo of a small forklift that got caught on one and went vertical without no damage to the drop, but sure scared the driver a bit.
 
wireguru said:
I dont think using a bell box meets the spirit of the requirement for intergal hub. The bell boxes are cast aluminum (or mystery metal if theyre chinese ones) and I have seen ones used on portable cords that have cracked from being dropped. I prefer the actual pentant boxes like those from ericcson, woodhead, cooper, etc.
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Alemite 7260 cord reel uses a bell box. UL listed...

7260_med.jpg
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
When mounted on the wall, it will not be handled in the same fashion, as when it is hanging.
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But nothing prevents the sidewall KO being accidentally pushed in. The likeliness of this occuring is certainly less but I do not believe it should be the qualifier. IMNSHO that type of box should only be allowed in concealed installation. Too late now where there are literally 1,000,000 of those installations are in place....:-? If it is good for those uses I see hardly the diference why it should not be allowed as a pendant box with independent - from the conductors or raceway - mechanical support, such as an aircraft cable. I would never specify it though, only FS boxes or regular NEMA boxes.
 
skeptic66067 said:
Ok. Some of the points here are valid, but I don't read 314.23(H)(1) as prohibiting the use with an approved connector (kellums) it actually it allows for it. The idea that the KOs can be pushed in and short out against the device is true I guess but I thought that is why we ground the box. If we find the KOs bent in a little bit we change out the enclosure or if the device developes a crack we change out the device.
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The grounded box would NOT prevent someone of getting in contact with live parts from the outside with the missing KO's.
 
skeptic66067 said:
Great point Don. So in the application that I have listed, in your opinion, I could hang a bell box from a kellums strain relief connector and please the authorities having jurisdiction ?
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The Code uses the 'such as' which means that other means can be provided for stress relief, the integral hub just being one part of the support. You still need to have a cable that is designated and listed to be used as a pendant cord and the maximum allowable cable length and weight of the suspended device specified.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
This requirement can be found in OSHA documentation.
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Im not sure our local inspectors are the OSHA inforcers around here but, if the safety guy says it has to then that should be a huge factor.
I had a project recently where we removed the cords that were hanging 20' from 1900 boxes in the ceiling and installed a receptacle in the box and made up a cord with a male and female end on it. Then we used a vellum grip from the cord to the bar joist formed a small drip loop plugged it into the receptacle. The safety guy was happy.
 
jrannis said:
Im not sure our local inspectors are the OSHA inforcers around here but, if the safety guy says it has to then that should be a huge factor.
I had a project recently where we removed the cords that were hanging 20' from 1900 boxes in the ceiling and installed a receptacle in the box and made up a cord with a male and female end on it. Then we used a vellum grip from the cord to the bar joist formed a small drip loop plugged it into the receptacle. The safety guy was happy.
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That changes the installation from hard wired to an extension cord. I have seen others make the exact same change.
 
jrannis said:
Im not sure our local inspectors are the OSHA inforcers around here but, if the safety guy says it has to then that should be a huge factor.
I had a project recently where we removed the cords that were hanging 20' from 1900 boxes in the ceiling and installed a receptacle in the box and made up a cord with a male and female end on it. Then we used a vellum grip from the cord to the bar joist formed a small drip loop plugged it into the receptacle. The safety guy was happy.
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I love this install. Especially if the cord ends are twist-locks! Are you sure you used vellum grips? or were they kellums grips? :)
 
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