Oh, we forgot to mention the disposal??

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PCN said:
There is a BIG difference between "full rate" and rape. IMHO.

Sorry to stir everybody up.... I'm over it.
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Full/T&M/Emergency rates are 'rape' if compared to the bid point cost, but "rape" could be considered harsh wording - agreed. Either way they pay more to me to pay less to some other trade(s) for their nickle and dime'ing of my contract for something like the OP a bazzilion pages back.
 
480sparky said:
True story:

One of the first houses I ever wired on my own did not have a single ceiling light in it. All bath fans were mounted in the walls and vented down & out through the basement. HO was 'terrified' of the heat loss from ceiling lights and such. Nothing but floor & table lamps on switched receps.

In any event, I still mounted some 8b boxes on 2x4s, flush with the bottom of the ceiling joists, and made notes of the measurements on where those boxes were. I ran 14/3 from them to switch boxes, and dead-ended them there. There was no attic in this home, as the sloped ceiling joists were also the rafters for the roof. Todl the drywallers to ignore them, and cover them up.

Three years after finishing, I get a call from her. She wants ceiling fans installed. I go out, and she tells me she's had three other electicians look at the job. One quoted her $600, another $800, and the other said it couldn't be done. The first two also said she would need to hire someone to patch & repaint the walls as they were going to have to tear holes in the drywall.

I asked if she had the fans already, which she did and they were in the garage. I told her I could have them up and running that afternoon. She said she wasn't prepared to install them today because she would need to empty the rooms out, cover the hardwood floors, and arrange for a drywaller and a painter to come patch the holes she was sure I was going to make.

I told her there would be no holes, and the fans would still be up and running by lunch time. She was skeptic, but agreed. I got my measurements out, dug out the boxes, installed the fans & swtiches, and swept up. Whole job took two hours.

She was absolutely amazed I only charged her $500, and she had no repair work to do.

Did I 'rape' the customer?
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I would have charged more for convenience and speed factor... $1000 easily.
 
480sparky said:
Maybe today. This was 1986, however.
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and? if you short change yourself yesterday, what makes you any better than today? I'm not an employer, but I've worked with enough of them that none of them get it, and just reading the stuff on this site confirms my beliefs, only a handful of people actually get it. ( emahler, satcom, celtic to name a few.) and a few that got banned for their beliefs as well. :)
 
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stickboy1375 said:
and? if you short change yourself yesterday, what makes you any better than today?
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Inflation, my friend, inflation.

In 1986, Chernobyl melted down. Union Carbide agreed to a settlement with India over the gas leak in Bhopal. Ferdinand Marcos fled the Phillapines. Ronny Reagan freezes Lybian assets. Gas was 93? a gallon. First-class stamps were 22?. Median income was just short of 25 grand.

And 500 clams in 1986 is $988.02 today. Would you work for two hours for that kind of scratch today?
 
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480sparky said:
Inflation, my friend, inflation.

In 1986, Chernobyl melted down. Union Carbide agreed to a settlement with India over the gas leak in Bhopal. Ferdinand Marcos fled the Phillapines. Ronny Reagan freezes Lybian assets. Gas was 93? a gallon.

And 500 clams in 1986 is $988.02 today. Would you work for two hours for that kind of scratch?
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so would you do the job today for $2000 or $1000?
 
480sparky said:
Depends on how bad the customer wants it done. Four grand sounds better, but if my only options are yours, then $2K.
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I was just curious, thats all. I think you left money on the table for the job you did with no other trades involved, and prices other contrators gave, seems to me you did the home owner a favor.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I was just curious, thats all. I think you left money on the table for the job you did with no other trades involved, and prices other contrators gave, seems to me you did the home owner a favor.
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Still, if I could work two hours a day, with minimal material (two old-work boxes is all I used for that job), and bill out close to a grand, I'd do pretty good. Heck, if I could do that twice a day at that rate, I'd go home at noon.
 
480sparky said:
The same scenario plays out every day when someone decides to finish their basement. They usually want a bathroom down there. Did anyone take the time to rough in the plumbing for it before the slab was poured?
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If they did, it was discussed and paid for in the initial discussion. It would have been if it were me.

Why? The odds are it was not the original plumbing contractor that got called for the remodel.
 
LarryFine said:
If they did, it was discussed and paid for in the initial discussion. It would have been if it were me.

Why? The odds are it was not the original plumbing contractor that got called for the remodel.
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I admit, it's a poor comparison. A plumbing rough for a bathroom is pretty difficult to miss, even by the dumbest person. But the money spent to install it during original construction is a whooooole lot less than tearing up the floor.
 
480sparky said:
I admit, it's a poor comparison. A plumbing rough for a bathroom is pretty difficult to miss, even by the dumbest person. But the money spent to install it during original construction is a whooooole lot less than tearing up the floor.
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Agreed, of course.

What would have been less risky to you would have been to agree with the customer to pre-wire as you did and get paid for it.

Of course, the flip-side is that the customer would have been aware of the pre-wire and could have told the competition about it.

Just curious; how much would you have charged for the pre-wire then plus the fan installs now, to compare to the $500 you got?
 
LarryFine said:
Agreed, of course.

What would have been less risky to you would have been to agree with the customer to pre-wire as you did and get paid for it.

Of course, the flip-side is that the customer would have been aware of the pre-wire and could have told the competition about it.

Just curious; how much would you have charged for the pre-wire then plus the fan installs now, to compare to the $500 you got?
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I don't have fan prewires broken down any more. And I sure don't remember what I charged 22 years ago. I can barely remember what I had for breakfast this morning.

Fan prewires are automatic in my bidding these days.
 
LarryFine said:
What would have been less risky to you would have been to agree with the customer to pre-wire as you did and get paid for it.

Of course, the flip-side is that the customer would have been aware of the pre-wire and could have told the competition about it.
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Oh you never tell them anything - as that sounds like - 'Oh I did that out of pity for you - you penney pincher....' If you want to do that - just come out and say it.... If you tell them up-front about it - they just tell the next guy they'll pinch the penny on.

What you do is, say - "OH this is going to take a while..." wait for them to get bored and wonder off. Then go for a good sit down lunch, or just go read in the truck - then come back and whipe it out. ;)
 
I went to a larger house that was built in the 50s to install a circuit for a disposal many years ago.
The guy wanted a price. I told him $650. He make me shake on the deal.
Outside block wall, plastered walls inside way back in the cabinet. I had no idea how I was going to do it but knew it would be a long day.
I took a chisel and started to knock a hole in the wall in a spot that looked perfect for the new outlet. The chisel went through the plaster on the first or second hit. What did I find? A junction box, no cover, plastered over with a yellow and white #12 all neatly tucked in the box. No wirenut.
I went to the panel on the otherside of the house, opened it up and found a nice yellow #12 and a white #12 coiled up waiting for me.
I even found a spare breaker in the panel for the circuit.
The HO handed me a check for the full $650.
On the way out of the driveway, I said a prayer for the EC that didnt get the disposal CO 30 years ago.:)
 
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