Old 2 wire
- Thread starter Jnewell
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Those are the only two options. GFCI is the simplest but often the old boxes are pretty small/
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Often, in older homes, a grounding receptacle is desired for a new point load, such as a computer setup, an audio/video system, a window A/C, etc. In such cases, I almost always recommend a new circuit.
This provides the double advantage of giving the new load a new, direct, well-grounded circuit, as well as relieving the existing wiring of the burden of supplying the new load.
This provides the double advantage of giving the new load a new, direct, well-grounded circuit, as well as relieving the existing wiring of the burden of supplying the new load.
ramsy
Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Contractors & handyman both get this wrong for lack of skills or experience.
In most States where 406.4(D)4 was adopted over 10yrs ago, the municipal-combination inspectors are walking right thru remodels without checking for it.
Apparently nobody needs to comply with this, or inspect for it, and the property will be subject to hidden, latent, or construction-defect law.
ramsy
Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
This method also triggers 210.12, but compliance is simpler with dedicated circuits, if contractors are willing to do it.
250.130(C) is another option that complies with fire code.
However, this option also triggers 406.4(D)3&4&5 without the existing 2-prong plug that was originally permitted & inspected with the building.
Another option 406.4(D)2(a) has always been available for those who refuse, or can't handle the other requirements.
I'll second 250.130(C) also note it has no amperage limitation, so you can use it for a range or dryer.
It however can be a stunt to fish that green wire into a old metal box.
Then you have the issue of really old boxes with no ground screw hole.
I prefer to make my own over using the grounding clips:
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
You can add GFCI protection, you can pick up a ground, or you can pull a new circuit. Or all new service if they really want to do it right.
Thise are pretty much the only options.
Having a 3 wire receptacle on an ungrounded circuit is not a violation in and of itself.
Thise are pretty much the only options.
Having a 3 wire receptacle on an ungrounded circuit is not a violation in and of itself.
Mr. Serious
Senior Member
- Location
- Oklahoma, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I don't know the code by heart and don't have the book on me right now, but I'm 97% sure that's wrong.
Generally speaking, a 3 prong receptacle can be installed on a 2 wire circuit as long as GFCI protection is provided and it is labeled properly.
Mr. Serious
Senior Member
- Location
- Oklahoma, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Oh, yes, I forgot about putting it on a GFI. No problem, if you do that. I did it in 1999 as an apprentice, and not since then, so that's why I forgot.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
And, any EGCs should not be connected to devices or to each other.
And, we're supposed to use those "no equipment ground" stickers.
If the ungrounded receptacle serves one of the items in 250.114, like a refrigerator you might have an issue.
If there were a two wire system and someone at some point in time came along and installed 3 prong receptacles on said two wire system, that would be non compliant. I agree add gfci protection, an egc, or I don't see why you can't install a 2 prong receptacle since the 3 prong receptacle was wrong anyway.
LT Sparky
Member
- Location
- Farwell, TX, United States
- Occupation
- Estimator Project Manager
We replaced some 2 prong with gfci’s once. Then the inspector came along with his plug tester and it doesn’t trip. Threw us for a loop for a bit but found out the hand tester has to have a ground to test.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Been told that those plug in GFCI testers are not valid for inspection purpose for that very reason. Only acceptable test is the test button on the receptacle or breaker.
Seven-Delta-FortyOne
Goin’ Down In Flames........
- Location
- Humboldt
- Occupation
- EC and GC
Had to tell an Inspectigator that.
The plug in testers leak a small amount of current to the ground. If there’s no ground, then it doesn’t leak.
So unless he wants to ground himself and grab the hot, he better go to the GFCI, push the button, and make sure all downstream receptacles are dead.
The plug in testers leak a small amount of current to the ground. If there’s no ground, then it doesn’t leak.
So unless he wants to ground himself and grab the hot, he better go to the GFCI, push the button, and make sure all downstream receptacles are dead.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
He could use a grounding "cheater" and extend the pigtail to a nearby grounded surface.
Knuckle Dragger
Master Electrician Electrical Contractor 01752
- Location
- Marlborough, Massachusetts USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Well you could also replace it with a new "two prong".
- Status