Old color code ditti

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brian john said:
OK B,R,B is pretty much standardized for 208/120, but for 480/277 I have seen every possible configuration, including the use of purple tape. Use a rotation meter and stick with what ever is on that particular job. I have seen electricians argue BOY till there blue in the face changing the job standard and in my opinion possibly complicating future installs.
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I know you do work in different areas.
Do you see consistancy in certain areas, say within a state, or are the configurations different from building to building?
 
stickboy1375 said:
480sparky said:
Huh? This is what I use:

120/240 Single phase: Black, Red
120/208 Three phase: Black, Red, Blue
480/277 Three phase: Brown, Orange, Yellow
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120/240 Single phase: Black, Black :grin:
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I hope you don't do black and black on MWBCs

brian john said:
OK B,R,B is pretty much standardized for 208/120, but for 480/277 I have seen every possible configuration, including the use of purple tape. Use a rotation meter and stick with what ever is on that particular job. I have seen electricians argue BOY till there blue in the face changing the job standard and in my opinion possibly complicating future installs.
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The year 2008 is about a century too late for my suggestion but I'll give it anyway. . After seeing insulation colors in all kinds of environments, lit with light sources of all different kinds and lighting levels, I believe that Yellow shows up very similar to White and should never have been chosen as a phase color. . Grey in some shades by certain manufacturers in certain lighting, looks almost identical to Brown and should never have been chosen as a neutral color [and some manufacturers Grey looks like a flat Black].

In this part of the country we see:
lower voltage [120v to ground]: Black, Red, Blue with a White neutral
higher voltage [480v phase to phase]: Brown, Orange, Yellow with a Grey neutral
[Pink is common for 3way/4way travelers and of course the Green ground]

I think it should be:
lower voltage [120v to ground]: Black, Red, Blue with a White neutral
higher voltage [480v phase to phase]: Brown, Orange, Purple with a Yellow neutral
and get rid of Grey completely
[Pink is good for 3way/4way travelers and of course the Green ground]
 
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I've seen the gray that looks black. I think the manu's should just get it together and make consistently right colors. I see four different colors of red in the same box sometimes.

I've seen purple, yellow, and pink used for travelers. On 1o systems I use blue for switchlegs or travelers.
 
dnem said:
I think it should be:
lower voltage [120v to ground]: Black, Red, Blue with a White neutral
higher voltage [480v phase to phase]: Brown, Orange, Purple with a Yellow neutral
and get rid of Grey completely
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I understand what you saying, but I think it would be confusing (to me) to change Yellow from a ungrounded conductor, to a grounded conductor.
 
Do you see consistancy in certain areas, say within a state, or are the configurations different from building to building?
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Not in the DC area, everything under the sun from the use of Black, red, blue BYO, OYB, YBO, BOY and more on 480/277 VAC. In other places there seems to be more consistancy.
 
brian john said:
Not in the DC area, everything under the sun from the use of Black, red, blue BYO, OYB, YBO, BOY and more on 480/277 VAC. In other places there seems to be more consistancy.
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Since color coding isn't universal, if the NEC decides to adopt a color code, I hope they specify Yellow as ungrounded/neutral along with White and Grey.

Better yet, specify that a shade of Grey that is within a specified range [how do they specify shades ?]. . 3M Grey tape actually has the opposite problem. . It's so light that it looks like White unless you get it side by side with White. . I wish Grey would just go away forever.
 
Minuteman said:
I understand what you saying, but I think it would be confusing (to me) to change Yellow from a ungrounded conductor, to a grounded conductor.
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Why not? Gray made a similar change a couple code cycles ago.
 
georgestolz said:
Does anybody else have a hard time distinguishing many gray spools from black? It gives me fits, personally.
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I've seen that Dark Grey many times. . And have you seen the Brown that is only about a shade difference from the Dark Grey ?

480sparky said:
Natural gray is a very light gray, not much darker than white, and has not been available for years. In low-light or poor-light situations, white and natural gray would be indistinguishable, even side-by-side. Yet many electricians improperly installed gray as an grounded (neutral), typically in 277/480 applications.
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I hate Grey insulation. . It's useless.

480sparky said:
The deletion of the word natural occured in the 2002 NEC, when it was concluded that too much gray had been already (incorrectly) installed as a grounded conductor.
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I think I'll make a code proposal to totally eliminate Grey as a conductor color.
 
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480sparky said:
Why not? Gray made a similar change a couple code cycles ago.
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I know, I remember.

I can take you to several old places where Green and Red are ungrounded, and Black is grounded.

If gray was dropped and yellow was changed to a grounded color, I would get used to it... Just would be more confusing.
 
dnem said:
I hate Grey insulation. . It's useless.
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Not useless to me, here Brown, Orange, Yellow, Gray, is 480 volt.

Here in MA until a few code cycles ago gray was required to be used for the neutral of systems over 250 volts to ground.

Blue and green can also be tough to distinguish in low light conditions, are we going to ban blue as well?
 
jerm said:
you forgot 120/240 three phase:
Black Orange Blue
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the way highlegs are done around here is to pull Black, Red, Blue, and wrap/stripe the Red with Orange tape to identify it as a "highleg" or "wildleg" which ever you like to call it.... as I understand it to be, the highleg is supposed to be on the "B" phase, but I do some work in an area where the power company insists on it being on "C" due to how thier meter works, somehow the positon of the power and neutral connection for the meters motor doesnt work with the highleg on B, it makes for a confusing situation.... so I just try to match what is existing in the building.
 
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iwire said:
Not useless to me, here Brown, Orange, Yellow, Gray, is 480 volt.
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Same color code round here in the Cleveland area but Grey is still crap.

iwire said:
Blue and green can also be tough to distinguish in low light conditions, are we going to ban blue as well?
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Everything gets tough in low light but nothing is nearly as bad as all those Greys.
Even in good lighting Grey is still difficult.
The flat Black/Grey, is it Black or is it Grey ?
The grey shaded Brown when used with a Grey, which is which ?
The 3M tape or very light colored insulation Grey, is it White or is it Grey ?
Even in good lighting I hate Grey.
 
Some of the inspectors here want to see brown, purple, yellow, gray for 480/277 because they say orange is just for a high leg.( I disagree though)
 
C3PO said:
Some of the inspectors here want to see brown, purple, yellow, gray for 480/277 because they say orange is just for a high leg.( I disagree though)
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What code are they referencing?

Roger
 
C3PO said:
110.15 (I know that is not what it says, but that is what they claim it says.)
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If Orange is reserved exclusively for the centertapped delta high leg then when you comply with 517.160(A)(5) you'll be violating 110.15.

There's no exclusive for Orange.
 
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