Old House Ceiling Light

[U. P. Chuck Electric]

Jim,(tampa) your so condesending! its rude! (as usual) Your not a moderator so chill out or don't reply and leave this to the moderators.
People can fil out what ever they want in their profile. Jim forgot to put down he's GOD.

Larry's trick it what we do all the time, I personally spit into the insulation sleeve to let it slide easier then put a wrap of tape on it to make sure it stays. Fix the wires, put the fixture back up & wait another 100 years for a call back!

 

[mdshunk]

It wasn't just this ceiling outlet that had no box that concerns me I am also concerned that there are probably more ceiling outlets without boxes. .

Don't be concerned any longer. In an installation this old, none of your ceiling fixtures will have boxes. I'm not psychic.... that's just how they did it back when. I do almost 90% or better old work. This is an everyday thing for me. They will have a 3/4" or 1" thick board nailed between the joists above the plaster lath with two adjacent bored holes in that board for the loom with conductors to pass through. Often, if you can poke around a little bit with your screwdriver and excavate the plaster away from around the wire and expose that board where the loom with conductor passes through, there is often slack up above. You need to find the edge of the loom, free it from surrounding plaster, and try pulling it down through with a pair of needle nose pliers. Sometimes, this saves the day if there is a bit of slack. Arlington is making a really nice box/medallion combination thing that I often use to retrofit these K&T installations without boxes. Those Wago connectors often save the day if you can't get a wire nut on properly on a short stub of K&T. (That's one of the few instances where I actually like Wago's)

 

[winnie]

I do not have professional experience with old wiring such as described here. However I have used a couple of items in my lab work that would appear to be useful.

The first is coated fiberglass sleeving, available in various sizes. For example McMaster-Carr part numbeer 7408K45. This stuff is nice and flexible, and if you select the proper size it will slide easily over the old insulation. Note that it is sized for _bare_ wire gage sizes, so if you want to slide it over the old insulation, then you need to select for a rather larger size.

The second are 'set screw wire nuts', which start with a brass ferrule that has a set screw on the side, and then have a plastic cover which screws over the ferrule. This lets you see that you have a good splice on a very short section of wire, but is removable in ways that the crimp sleeves simply cannot be. I'm pretty sure that these are an Ideal product; McMaster sells them as part number 6878K95.

I am sure that there are cheaper sources for both of these items; McMaster is the place that I go for small quantities of random things when I don't want to spend lots of time finding the 'best' supplier.

-Jon

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim,(tampa) your so condesending! its rude! (as usual) Your not a moderator so chill out or don't reply and leave this to the moderators.
People can fil out what ever they want in their profile. Jim forgot to put down he's GOD.

Larry's trick it what we do all the time, I personally spit into the insulation sleeve to let it slide easier then put a wrap of tape on it to make sure it stays. Fix the wires, put the fixture back up & wait another 100 years for a call back!

Well just keep on doing it till you go to court.I did not know only moderators could post here.Your the new kid here (moderator ?) so wake up and learn.You dont always hear what you like here.Your options are ignore or listen, totally your choice my friend.

 

[tallgirl]

There's an old saying in Tennessee ? I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee ? that says, Ban me once, shame on ? shame on you. Ban me ? you can't get Banned again.

Interesting signature. Explains the responses.

 

[allenwayne]

I have spoken to the HO and recommended a complete inspection of their wiring. It wasn't just this ceiling outlet that had no box that concerns me I am also concerned that there are probably more ceiling outlets without boxes. I also informed her that the kitchen light does need a box and should be repaired as soon as possible.
I appreciate all of the comments that were made to help me understand some of the finer points of old house wiring.
I realize that many of you who have been doing this type of work for a long time have skills that I do not have. And that is why I asked the question.

.

That is what this site is all about sharing knowledge and experience in the field.A qualified electrician can take info from another division in that field and pit it into practical usage.

To the junior members of this forum and to the junior members in this trade.Don`t be quick to judge us old guys we have alot to offer you.I came into this trade without any formal classroom training and yes sometimes it shows.But I can also tell you that over these 30 + years i have done enough OJT to last me a lifetime and I still learn from others.Take the knowledge available here and be gratefull it is available for free !!!!!Some people pay big bucks for this knowledge.Here you can ask a question and get the answer and explination and pm the members to help you for free.Where else can you do this.

 

[tallgirl]

I've read several threads where it sounds like y'all could benefit from some kind of camera that can "see" inside wall and ceiling spaces. I've been working on an idea (unfortunately not exactly patentable ) that would let one use an inexpensive webcam and laptop computer to see inside walls and take photos.

Any need for something like this? I'm planning to make one for myself sometime this winter, if anyone cares.

 

[al hildenbrand]

camera that can "see" inside wall and ceiling spaces.

There exist a class of fiber-optic, gooseneck scopes with self contained light sources . . .off the top of my head I'm not recalling a make & model.

A couple of the Forum members work with them. . .there was a mention in a thread a short while ago. . .anyone recall the particulars?

I'm partial to a small dime store mirror with a handle and a krypton flashlight with an articulated head. I can stick the light in the hole, point it the way I want to look and then hold the mirror with the other hand.

If I'm coaxing a hook or a snake past a particular spot, the light can balance at the hole, or even be held by the mirror hand.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I've read several threads where it sounds like y'all could benefit from some kind of camera that can "see" inside wall and ceiling spaces. I've been working on an idea (unfortunately not exactly patentable ) that would let one use an inexpensive webcam and laptop computer to see inside walls and take photos.

Any need for something like this? I'm planning to make one for myself sometime this winter, if anyone cares.

There are some cheap cams that see in the dark.Are times that i wish i had it with me.One i have would fit in about a 2 inch hole.

 

[mdshunk]

I've read several threads where it sounds like y'all could benefit from some kind of camera that can "see" inside wall and ceiling spaces. .

I have a "Wall Eye Periscope", and it helps me out from time to time. https://www.tselectronic.com/laborsaving/we.html?tse_Session=baedcd73682de6bea717ee0fe85e4be6

Truthfully, my "mind's eye" is normally all I need to "look" inside a wall. Time in the field and a famaliarity with all construction styles will pretty well let you know what's going on inside the wall or ceiling cavity.

 

[jeff43222]

There exist a class of fiber-optic, gooseneck scopes with self contained light sources . . .off the top of my head I'm not recalling a make & model.

A couple of the Forum members work with them. . .there was a mention in a thread a short while ago. . .anyone recall the particulars?

I have a ProVision Eagle. It has one or two LEDs on the end, controllable with a trigger. I paid about $240 for it online, as I couldn't find it locally.

 

[jeff43222]

Truthfully, my "mind's eye" is normally all I need to "look" inside a wall. Time in the field and a famaliarity with all construction styles will pretty well let you know what's going on inside the wall or ceiling cavity.

I still get surprised by the weird stuff I find inside walls. You never know when you might run into random fire blocking or pipes that aren't obvious. I've also found plenty of j-boxes.

This is why I bought the borescope.

 

[tallgirl]

Thanks for the responses.

I've seen some of the products y'all mentioned. Usually I get a flashlight and makeup compact and look in the walls.

What I have in mind to make is something that will go further and put a CCD (the electric gadget in webcams and digital cameras) and white LED on the end. I'm not interested in spending $240 for something I can make from $30 worth of parts at Radio Shack

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Thanks for the responses.

I've seen some of the products y'all mentioned. Usually I get a flashlight and makeup compact and look in the walls.

What I have in mind to make is something that will go further and put a CCD (the electric gadget in webcams and digital cameras) and white LED on the end. I'm not interested in spending $240 for something I can make from $30 worth of parts at Radio Shack

Thats cheating LOL