old job comes back to haunt

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ishium 80439

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Denver foothills via the Horn of Africa
Hello,

I've been lurking here for a while and a few years ago had an account but it dissappeared into the ether. I had a situation pop up that I would like some input on.

I came up in the trade in SW CT. Almost every residential service I had a part in installing used SEU and when necessary (ie meter/ main with a panel inside) SER. I now live/ work in the Denver area where SE cable is all but non-existent. Two years ago I did a job that involved installing a subpanel for a basement finish. I used SER from the main panel (located on the exterior of the home), ran a few feet down to basement level, penetrated the wall and ran to my sub.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago when I got a call from the HO saying she finally got around to her basement finish and there was a problem with my install. Basically the inspector didn't like it. After sending her the link for the UL standard for SER construction (at first the insp. said it wasn't OK to use outside), she came back with it wasn't physically protected.

I have had so many jobs almost identical to this one inspected, I never even thought about it, however I think she may have me with 225.20 and 230.50. So I have two questions: First is it just a regional difference that I never had to protect SE cable before? And second what would you say to an HO that is complaining about a job that is 2 yrs old (esp. after she cut me out of the remodel)? (BTW, it was never inspected originaly b/c the basement was supposed to be finished out on the heels of the sub install and I figured they would get inspected at the same time.)

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
I'm only going to answer the question about protection from physical damage, I live/work in Connecticut, and we never protect the SEU/SER, and it is the norm. around here, BUT... everywhere else is different, so I guess you need to know what they want where you are working...
 
ishium 80439 said:
I used SER from the main panel (located on the exterior of the home), ran a few feet down to basement level, penetrated the wall and ran to my sub.
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A few feet down as in close to the ground? I might can understand needing protection.

ishium 80439 said:
(BTW, it was never inspected originaly b/c the basement was supposed to be finished out on the heels of the sub install and I figured they would get inspected at the same time.)
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That may be some of the problem. Was a permit pulled?
 
Since all you need to do is protect it from physical damage, it should not be all that hard to build a box around it out of treated lumber for the few feet it is exposed.

maybe just a treated 2x4 with a slot cut in the back lengthwise for the cable.
 
As I was born and raised in "Cable Land" (New England) I don't understand the whole physical damage issue other parts of the country have with cable methods including SEU/R.
 
peter d said:
As I was born and raised in "Cable Land" (New England) I don't understand the whole physical damage issue other parts of the country have with cable methods including SEU/R.
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Ditto... I just hate the callbacks for damaged SEU.SER cable... :grin: :grin: :grin:
 
Just for fun facts, the ONLY time I see a SEU/SER cable get damaged is when a PHONE/CATV/SATELLITE installer decides to drill a 12" pilot bit from inside out without looking first....
 
mdshunk said:
Other than the effects of time and the elements, I have yet to personally see an SEU or SER damaged by other influences.
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Neither have I, but I live and work in Northern Colorado...the land of physical protection. I don't think the OP will find a way out of providing the protection for the cable. I don't want to start the debate again, it's just the way it is around here. Good luck and welcome to Colorado.
 
ishium 80439 said:
Two years ago I did a job that involved installing a subpanel for a basement finish. I used SER from the main panel (located on the exterior of the home), ran a few feet down to basement level, penetrated the wall and ran to my sub.
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Every thing sounds good except for the fact that you didn't finish up the job with a permit and an inspection ( 2 years ago ).

I always get an inspection on a sub panel for a basement finish. Why? I'm pretty sure that when it's a seperate job that I'm not getting the basement ( handyman time ) and I want a record of what work I actually did.

The inspector may not like it that you didn't get an inspection, they have a job to protect to. And cheating him out of his bribe money doesn't go over well either.:D
 
petersonra said:
Since all you need to do is protect it from physical damage, it should not be all that hard to build a box around it out of treated lumber for the few feet it is exposed.

maybe just a treated 2x4 with a slot cut in the back lengthwise for the cable.
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NOOOOO!! Listing, labled....blah blah blah....:rolleyes:

Sounds like a good remedy to me.
 
I believe the issue is sub-panel: here you would have to provide physical protection of the wires. as far as time frame I believe you going out there to put physical protection on them; which is cheaper doing the work or the time involved with law suit..Only complaint you stated is your work did not pass and I would talk to inspector and make sure it is only your work you are responsible for..not since you touched it make it all right..
 
Out here we don't run exposed cable. I always assumed it was code until I started reading forums like this and found out that it is acceptable in a LOT of places.

It doesn't seem safe to me with all the weed eaters, kids and animals chewing up things.

It's a 240 volt, 100/200 amp extension cord!
 
Without doubt not pulling a permit/ getting it inspected was a large error. Live and learn. At the time I believed the HO regarding the scheduling of the finish. What's that phrase used car guys have? "Buyers are liars". I'm resigned to the fact that something needs to be done to appease the insp but at this point I just want to tell the HO to have her current "electrician" take care of it (PVC sleeve) and back charge me. I have a feeling that the guy who did the wiring will have that special deer-in-the-headlights look. Perhaps at that point she may realize why we get paid to do what we do.

The combination of no permit originally and unfamiliar material has put this in a place that there is no easy way out of. I worked in CT for 6 yrs PT and 7 yrs FT and echo the sentiment that I have never personally seen an issue w/ SEU/SER getting damaged. In the 7 yrs I've been in CO every service I've done has had a conduit riser. Cest la vie
 
220/221 said:
It doesn't seem safe to me with all the weed eaters, kids and animals chewing up things.
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I don't think I have ever seen a kid chewing on a service cable. Must be the lead paint, stop useing it.

In reality I normally run a rigid mast and I probably would have protected this cable with rigid or PVC. Not because it's really necessary but I like for a job to look good and for people to think they are getting a quality product. I like rigid because it's easy to paint to match the siding and it looks solid.
 
growler said:
I like rigid because it's easy to paint to match the siding and it looks solid.
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If you used rigid for a service here (other than a mast service), everyone would laugh at you. :D Well, ok, maybe not laugh out loud but you would get some funny looks. It just isn't done. :)
 
peter d said:
If you used rigid for a service here (other than a mast service), everyone would laugh at you. :)
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They probably laugh at me here to but you would be surprised how many homeowners that are impressed. If you are going to charge top money you have to have something to sell. Brant uses solder and I use rigid. No one can see the solder.

When the neighbors come over to check out the job ( and they always do) I like for things to look very functional. Rigid has that last forever look.
Cable tends to have a more temporary look.

Let'm Laugh.
 
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