Old Romex

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henry1223

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Gainesville,Fl
I have a customer with a house built in the 50's the romex does not have a ground. She had a home inspection per her insurance company and they now what all the receps to be grounded. Any suggestions? Besides re-wiring the whole house which buy the way does not have an attic. Thank You
 
henry1223 said:
I have a customer with a house built in the 50's the romex does not have a ground. She had a home inspection per her insurance company and they now what all the receps to be grounded. Any suggestions? Besides re-wiring the whole house which buy the way does not have an attic. Thank You
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Her home does not violate nec.The insurance company can pick who they will insure.Might be cheaper to shop around without fixing.
 
They can't require the HO to rewire the house that was up to code when it was built. She may need to find another insurer though.
 
I had a homeowner call me a few months ago in regard to a home they took ownership of after the lady that owned it had passed away. They cleaned it out and put it up for sale, but wanted to get insurance on it until it was sold. The first thing the insurance company told them was that the exisiting fuse box in the basement had to be replaced with a breaker panel before they would insure it. What made it worse was the real estate agent agreed that this needed to be done. The existing service was adequate, and was up to code when initially installed, no exisitng hazards to speak of. I gladly did a 100 amp service upgrade for them, as it did add to the value of the home, but it is just amazing what insurance companies will tell the HO. I also found it quite amusing that the real estate agent was so adament about the service, but made no mention about the open asbestos insulation on the heat pipes throughout the cellar.......
 
racerdave3 said:
I had a homeowner call me a few months ago in regard to a home they took ownership of after the lady that owned it had passed away. They cleaned it out and put it up for sale, but wanted to get insurance on it until it was sold. The first thing the insurance company told them was that the exisiting fuse box in the basement had to be replaced with a breaker panel before they would insure it. What made it worse was the real estate agent agreed that this needed to be done. The existing service was adequate, and was up to code when initially installed, no exisitng hazards to speak of. I gladly did a 100 amp service upgrade for them, as it did add to the value of the home, but it is just amazing what insurance companies will tell the HO. I also found it quite amusing that the real estate agent was so adament about the service, but made no mention about the open asbestos insulation on the heat pipes throughout the cellar.......
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Don't get me started on Realtors. :mad: I guess that it depends on your insurance company. I've had several over the years and not one has ever inspected anything in my 45 year old home. The most recent one was only a few years ago.
 
racerdave3 said:
I had a homeowner call me a few months ago in regard to a home they took ownership of after the lady that owned it had passed away. They cleaned it out and put it up for sale, but wanted to get insurance on it until it was sold. The first thing the insurance company told them was that the exisiting fuse box in the basement had to be replaced with a breaker panel before they would insure it. What made it worse was the real estate agent agreed that this needed to be done. The existing service was adequate, and was up to code when initially installed, no exisitng hazards to speak of. I gladly did a 100 amp service upgrade for them, as it did add to the value of the home, but it is just amazing what insurance companies will tell the HO. I also found it quite amusing that the real estate agent was so adament about the service, but made no mention about the open asbestos insulation on the heat pipes throughout the cellar.......
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The realtor gets paid by %%%%%%%% do anything to raise price or make it sell easier and they win.I have fired realtors and sold homes faster without them and more profit for me.As to insurance companies they make money from homes that are very unlikely to burn not fire traps.
 
Old Romex

henry1223 said:
I have a customer with a house built in the 50's the romex does not have a ground. She had a home inspection per her insurance company and they now what all the receps to be grounded. Any suggestions? Besides re-wiring the whole house which buy the way does not have an attic. Thank You
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Would GFCI breakers resolve this problem ?

At the last class I attended the instructor stated that when changing a service from fuses to breakers it is requiered to GFCI protect all ungrouded circuits.
 
ptonsparky said:
I would like to know the code reference on that requirement.
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According to the instructor it is a violation of NEC 80.9(C) It reads in part Additions,alterations,installations or repairs shall not cause any existing buildings to become unsafe.

Breakers do not protect ungrounded and knob and tube wiring as well as fuses do.

Again according to him.The reason insurance companys want knob and tube wiring removed is because they know that it was a mistake to require that fuse be changed to breakers.

I hope you noticed I said ACCORDING TO HIM
 
NEC 80.9 is not enforceable unless local ordinance exists above and beyond the written Code. Look at the opening sentence to 2005 NEC Annex G:
Annex G is not a part of the requirements of this NFPA document and is included for informational purposes only. This annex is informative unless specifically adopted by the local jurisdiction adopting the National Electrical Code?.
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--OR-- the opening line of 2002 NEC Article 80:
This article is informative unless specifically adopted by the local jurisdiction adopting the National Electrical Code?. (See 80.5.)
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Therefore, "he's" blowing smoke, generally obfuscating things.

As for the difference between a time-current response curve of the various types of fuses and circuit breakers that can reasonably be expected to be installed on a Knob & Tube branch circuit. . .While a discussion might get off onto subtle details, there is no substantive distinction.
 
Oh,

And I agree with Charlie, Jim and Trevor. Shop for a different insurance.
 
Old Romex

al thank you for the information. I will send it to this instructor and hope for a response from him.
 
I've been asked many times about converting to grounded recpts. I always ask,"why"? If we're talking about bedrooms or other spaces that don't have specific requirements you probably won't use the grounding conductor anyway. Most lamps, clock radios, etc aren't three prong. But, if a load needs a ground, it needs a ground. Installing a GFCI will add personal protection, but it won't help your stereo or your computer to operate correctly. They need a ground reference.
 
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