Old work box

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fidlinman

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Catlett, Va
Can you use an old work box for new work?
I have a contractor that wants to start installing drywall on one side before all the electrical devices are installed and wired. Is this a code violation? I want to put a stop to this because it takes too many man hours to work both sides of the wall.
Thanks for your help
 
fidlinman said:
Can you use an old work box for new work?
I have a contractor that wants to start installing drywall on one side before all the electrical devices are installed and wired. Is this a code violation? I want to put a stop to this because it takes too many man hours to work both sides of the wall.
Thanks for your help
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We do that all the time but we still use 'new work' boxes that are screwed to the stud.

That said, I can't think of any code NEC section you could cite to stop them from doing what you described.
 
You cannot use them in some fire rated walls where the box needs to be secured to the stud.
 
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If this is a concern contact the AHJ. There are some towns where I work where "one siding" is not allowed. I learned this the hard way.
 
joebell said:
If this is a concern contact the AHJ. There are some towns where I work where "one siding" is not allowed. I learned this the hard way.
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I don't always like it either but what is the basis for not allowing it? It can still be installed and inspected by actually picking up your feet and walking to the other side:slaphead:
 
iwire said:
We do that all the time but we still use 'new work' boxes that are screwed to the stud.
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I don't believe this is compliant even though it is commonly done. 314.22(B)(1)-- I am sure this will be argued... :happyyes:
 
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Dennis Alwon said:
I don't believe this is compliant even though it is commonly done. 314.22(B)(1)-- I am sure this will be argued... :happyyes:
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Arlington's "One Box" is compliant. Don't know what kind of fire rating they have but they would be attached to a stud.

When it comes to installing typical non metallic nail on boxes, often if you pull the nails and insert from other direction they are easy to install from back side. Now let someone try to say they are not listed for that:roll:
 
kwired said:
Arlington's "One Box" is compliant. Don't know what kind of fire rating they have but they would be attached to a stud.

When it comes to installing typical non metallic nail on boxes, often if you pull the nails and insert from other direction they are easy to install from back side. Now let someone try to say they are not listed for that:roll:
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The arlington boxes have the screw that goes inside a small well where the head cannot be contacted by wires. Hard to see here

d_1950.jpg
 
kwired said:
I don't always like it either but what is the basis for not allowing it? It can still be installed and inspected by actually picking up your feet and walking to the other side:slaphead:
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I do realize this and I personally do not have a problem, for the most part, with the contractor one siding the wall. I was just mentioning the fact that some municipalities in my area do not allow it. There is no code violation as far as I know. Maybe the inspectors in those towns have a quota on the # of steps allowed per inspection :)
 
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In my opinion the rule in 314.23(B)(1) only applies where the screw passes through two walls of the box. It does not apply where it passes through a single wall.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
In my opinion the rule in 314.23(B)(1) only applies where the screw passes through two walls of the box. It does not apply where it passes through a single wall.
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I agree it says that based on the wording but with the wording it also seems to imply that no oblect should come in contact with the wires. I believe the idea is to prevent accidental energizing of the screw that exits the box thereby preventing the stud from being energized-- esp a metal stud.

Also why would it only be required on a screw that goes thru the box.
 
joebell said:
I do realize this and I personally do not have a problem, for the most part, with the contractor one siding the wall. I was just mentioning the fact that some municipalities in my area do not allow it. There is no code violation as far as I know. Maybe the inspectors in those towns have a quota on the # of steps allowed per inspection :)
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I've been on many jobs where they one side mechanical room or at least behind furnace or some other item that makes it difficult to drywall around or behind later. Usually results in a better drywall job, and if wall is required to be fire rated, it is not easy to do properly if that one side is not done before putting equipment in front of it.

I had told guys one time they could put insulation batts in spaces where there is no wiring. Inspector shows up and right away complains "why are they insulating?" I told him they were told not to put any in spaces where there is wiring, and that it should not make any difference to his inspection, everything there is to see can still be seen. He kind of shook his head but said no more.
 
kwired said:
I've been on many jobs where they one side mechanical room or at least behind furnace or some other item that makes it difficult to drywall around or behind later. Usually results in a better drywall job, and if wall is required to be fire rated, it is not easy to do properly if that one side is not done before putting equipment in front of it.

I had told guys one time they could put insulation batts in spaces where there is no wiring. Inspector shows up and right away complains "why are they insulating?" I told him they were told not to put any in spaces where there is wiring, and that it should not make any difference to his inspection, everything there is to see can still be seen. He kind of shook his head but said no more.
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That is all well and good but many areas have rules about what can be done.

Here insulation cannot go in regardless of wiring being in that spot or not, maybe the insulation is covering up bad wiring that is being hidden?

Same with dropped ceilings, all the tiles (except for the edge cuts stay out until inspection.
 
iwire said:
We don't put the screws inside the box so it is not an issue to argue. :)
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Since the subject was about old work boxes I thought you cut the nails off a new work box and screwed thru the box into the stud. I have done this myself but please don't tell anyone....
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Since the subject was about old work boxes I thought you cut the nails off a new work box and screwed thru the box into the stud. I have done this myself but please don't tell anyone....
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Somebody Carlon or Arlington makes a box for just this application. However in a pinch I

have put screws thru a standard box.
 
iwire said:
That is all well and good but many areas have rules about what can be done.

Here insulation cannot go in regardless of wiring being in that spot or not, maybe the insulation is covering up bad wiring that is being hidden?

Same with dropped ceilings, all the tiles (except for the edge cuts stay out until inspection.
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Maybe I'm just not as smart (or stupid, take your pick) as the inspector. If there is bad wiring covered by the insulation it has to leave that area someplace doesn't it? Otherwise you have an entire system covered there, source, conductors, and load. If any of these elements is not in the area that is covered something should be exiting that area and raise a red flag.

Why is it any different than having a bunch of insulation or drywall waiting to be installed piled around the place possibly blocking any installed wiring from being inspected. If I have to work around all that crap that was not needed just yet, he can certainly inspect around it just because he has a title does not make him a god.
 
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