Old Work Estimate

[Dnkldorf]

Have any suggestions for niche markets?

Yes. When I first started I did the residential new construction, resi service gig just like everyone else probably did.

But it dawned on me early enough that the "good" money wasn't there. Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.
Homeowners with no money, and plenty of excuses, framers and builders who couldn't keep schedules, the list goes on and on...

I thought to myself why am I competing with these idiots, I must be one too.

So I changed into a strictly commercial, light industrial contractor, and hit the ground running. Never to look back at that type work again.

I worked myself into a couple huge companies, and found out the CEO's all network together and there I was. Did things right, the first time, and gave them everything they wanted, as long as it put money in my pocket.

At this stage, I have no competition that I care about. Niched myself right into a market.

The bad thing about what I do, is the cost of equipment, but I knew that going into it. I plowed every dollar I made back into the company.

It's really not hard if you put your mind to things.

It is only as hard as you make it out to be.

 

[aline]

When I first started I did the residential new construction, resi service gig just like everyone else probably did.

But it dawned on me early enough that the "good" money wasn't there. Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.
Homeowners with no money

I think these guys would disagree that there's no money in residential service work. http://clockworkhomeservices.com/
Oh yeah I forgot these guys are all crooks though because they use upfront pricing and learned how to make money in this niche market.
An honest contractor like yourself would just realize they can't make money in this market and do something else.

It's all good money if you're charging enough.

 

[emahler]

I think these guys would disagree that there's no money in residential service work. http://clockworkhomeservices.com/
Oh yeah I forgot these guys are all crooks though because they use upfront pricing and learned how to make money in this niche market.
An honest contractor like yourself would just realize they can't make money in this market and do something else.

It's all good money if you're charging enough.

Stop....you're just making it difficult...

Are you supposed to go from 1 man to 4, or vice versa? I forget.

 

[Dnkldorf]

Aline, your funny....

The OP is just starting out and asking a couple questions and you bring in clockwork?

Apples again?

Eric, How is your dad's Mr Electric business doing?

Kinda of different from being a Union Contractor a bit isn't it.

Oh, and congrats on getting your license in sept of 06. Nice to see you finally can yourself a licensed contractor after 15 years isn't it?

You guys have fun, I'll check in again later.

Good luck Rad! Have fun.

 

[aline]

Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.

Rad, go make some money and have fun. You ain't hurting any industry.

So which is it? Is the residential market hurting because of side workers or not? You say there's no money in residential because of this yet you encourage someone to do it.

GC's don't have to cut our throats. We do it to ourselves.

 

[aline]

You're right.
Clockwork specializes in residential home services and that has nothing to do with the residential work Rad is doing.

So you're saying he should only take advice about doing residential work from someone who doesn't do residential and only does commercial and industrial work?

Rad, go make some money and have fun. You ain't hurting any industry.

I'd like to change that to: Rad, go make some "good" money and have fun.

 

[aline]

to scare him into believing that contracting is a hard, sometimes mind wrenching pain in the butt endeavor is lame.

But it dawned on me early enough that the "good" money wasn't there. Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.
Homeowners with no money, and plenty of excuses, framers and builders who couldn't keep schedules, the list goes on and on...

And you thought our posts were scary?
This sounds like a horror movie.

 

[RADHAZMAN]

Item #1..........is that recep that you are moving up to counter height on a kitchen circuit?

Bib Vic Yes #1 is moving 1 receptacle up to counter height

 

[RADHAZMAN]

First of all I would like to say I do quality work.

Also I do not want to be bidding jobs way below the areas going rates. That was a big concern to me and one of the main reasons I posted here. I respect legitimate legal contractors and never want to hurt their business.

But I see plenty of them doing that by having all south of the border employees on new construction. I have looked at a lot of this work and there is no quality. I have had calls for service to new houses for non working circuits or outlets and found loose connections. There employees should be taught the word tight in English and its application to electrical connections.

And all hiring them are the ones hurting legitimate legal electrical contractors. Plus the retired guy only wanting to make enough beer money for the weekend.

Not everyone's father or uncle had an electrical contracting business and was BORN into the business.
You have to start somewhere and that is what I am trying to do and will do.

I have not given the HO a bid at this point and am refusing to touch the FPE panel even if I could find a breaker. My quote will be much higher and if I do not get the job I will just go fishing.

 

[emahler]

ah Dnk...good to have you back...I missed your inate inablity to recognize reality...if you had a clue, it would be scary....but thanks for following up on me...i feel special now, even if your information is a bit off.

aline- it's like clapping with one hand, isn't it.

rad - no one is saying "don't go into business", we are saying don't do it blindly. There is a lot of potential downside to this job that you are not prepared for. And to risk the fines and possible reprecussions over $627.50, well, that's something that doesn't make sense.

Dnk, you never did address this one minor potential problem:

I just don't understand how you can advocate putting his entire future at risk for $627.50. That doesn't seem really responsible to me.

No business permit, no insurance, at best a HO pulled construction permit, with an FPE panel....simple or not, this is a recipe for disaster.

That's really the issue here, isn't it. Not how some people grow businesses and other people shrink businesses. If Rad can't afford to pay the premiums for his insurance or pay for his business permit, how will he be able to pay the fines should something go wrong?

Also, let me get something clear (just for my own edification) - you'd rather pat Radhazman on the head, tell him good boy, and send him out completely unprepared to face

Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.
Homeowners with no money, and plenty of excuses, framers and builders who couldn't keep schedules, the list goes on and on...

, essentially sending him out there to fail. Instead of telling him some potential downfalls and attempting to help him avoid them?

That's really nice of you. Almost as nice as publically calling 1/2 of this industry thieves. Least we know where you stand.

It's a good thing you are a Veterans Advicate(sp?), because you are not a positive Advocate for the electrical industry. I hope you care more about the Veterans.

 

[emahler]

You're right.
Clockwork specializes in residential home services and that has nothing to do with the residential work Rad is doing.

So you're saying he should only take advice about doing residential work from someone who doesn't do residential and only does commercial and industrial work?


I'd like to change that to: Rad, go make some "good" money and have fun.

aline - i've been asking that question for a while...but, you've already realized that anyone who makes money in residential is a thief...go figure...

 

[emahler]

Rad,

Here is a good article to explain some of this to you. You will have to register for the site, but it's free (no overhead)

Especially read paragraphs 2 and 7. They really pertain to all of us.

The Price is Right

 

[RADHAZMAN]

emahler

Thank you I will check it out

 

[bradleyelectric]

Yes. When I first started I did the residential new construction, resi service gig just like everyone else probably did.

But it dawned on me early enough that the "good" money wasn't there. Too much competition with uninsured, side workers, and Gc's that want to cut your throat around every corner.
Homeowners with no money, and plenty of excuses, framers and builders who couldn't keep schedules, the list goes on and on...

Didn't you just tell him that he wasn't hurting the industry being an unlicensed contractor. Now you are telling us that you couldn't compete in that area due to the unlicensed contractors. What if there wasn't unlicensed contractors running around. Wouldn't legidamate businesses be able to compete in that market? I'm not worried about the new residential and know that it is to cut throat but not because of unlicensed people.

 

[electricguy45]

If you need to find FPE breakers, try breakerbroker.com, I've used them before and their supply and service has been quite good. If that doesn't work, we've got a number of FPE breakers that we've saved throughout the years, they're used of course, but in good shape.

 

[celtic]

... we've got a number of FPE breakers that we've saved throughout the years, they're used of course, but in good shape.

What does "in good shape." mean?

Are they clean?
Are they working properly?
Have they been tested?
If they fail, what liability do you incur?
If they fail, what liability does the installer incur?
If they fail, what liability does the HO incur?

 

[RADHAZMAN]

If you need to find FPE breakers, try breakerbroker.com, I've used them before and their supply and service has been quite good. If that doesn't work, we've got a number of FPE breakers that we've saved throughout the years, they're used of course, but in good shape.

Electricguy45 Thanks for the info. At this point I do not think I am even going to sneeze on that old FPE load center

 

[Bob NH]

Thanks for the info. At this point I do not think I am even going to sneeze on that old FPE load center

I think you are missing an opportunity.

A complete new kitchen is probably $10,000++ depending on the quality and size.

I would say; "The panel and wiring are out of code and the kitchen must at least be brought up to code (GFCI's, outlet spacing, circuits, . . . ) before the walls get covered with new cabinets.

"You need a new panel, which will be required to serve the rest of the house. Even if the amps remain the same, the panel must be changed for safety."

If she isn't ready to upgrade the service, at least a new panel that can be upgraded. Figure out what is best for her needs.

Whatever you have to touch should be brought up to code.

When she shows her friends the new kitchen, she will mention the new panel and show them everything she got. She will be proud of the new stuff and you won't be ashamed of the job if another electrician ever looks at it. What you really want is for her to become your customer for life.

 

[LarryFine]

If they fail, what liability do you incur?
If they fail, what liability does the installer incur?
If they fail, what liability does the HO incur?

Just out of curiousity, what are the answers to these questions with new equipment?

How about with a new (correctly selected) replacement breaker in an existing panel?

 

[celtic]

Just out of curiousity, what are the answers to these questions with new equipment?

If they fail, what liability do you incur?
If they fail, what liability does the installer incur?
If they fail, what liability does the HO incur?

A lawyer would had a field day here...

First they would want the seller to prove these devices were "in good shape"...whatever that means and is purely subjective. Does "in good shape" mean clean or actually functioning ...and what standard was used to prove their function...and is the person/firm that used that standard qualified to make that determination and qualified to use the test equipment...etc.

The installer would certainly occur liability as 99.99% of all contracts (if their was even one) use language to the effect that "all parts will be new". Another field day for the lawyers.

If the HO's house should burn down because of used FPE CB of unknown quality or accuracy was installed, the HO ins. co. will be looking at the above two persons wih their team of lawyers.

It's all about liability....and protecting yours (and your stuff).

How about with a new (correctly selected) replacement breaker in an existing panel?

Are both the panel and CB listed, labeled, approved, etc.