Old Work Recessed Lights

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frank_n

frank_n

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Central NJ
I was just wondering how everyone runs wires for old work recessed lights. I tried using a flex bit, but it was hard to get the bit to go where I wanted it. I also didn?t like drilling ?blind.?

Now I am using a Roto-Zip and making a notch in each beam. I cover the romex with a nail plate and I?m done. The Roto-Zip makes a lot of dust and a lot of holes. When I?m done, I recommend a drywall guy who does excellent work.

Does anyone have a better way, or any tricks?

Frank
 
I assume your are talking a solid beam house and not open trusses? If it is solid truss than you don't have much choice than to cut a section of sheetrock (usually 4" wide by whatever length you need) or cut various holes like you are doing. I hate blind drilling also, so the notching thing works for me. If it is open truss, in the past I have taken down various light boxes and fished conduit through the ceiling, (the conduit acting as a fish because of its rigidity). We did a house where the HO wanted to add huricane shutters after everything was drywalled. Thankfully there was about 60 recessed lights on that floor and we just made a pathway for the conduit/fish by opening up the necessary cans. (They wanted switches for the shutters to be located in one closet so they would not have to walk all over the house to open and close).
 
Use an adjustable hole cutter. It contains the dust.
Use it to cut the holes for the cans and for access holes for the joists then use a right angle drill with a short bit to drill through the joist.
Save the sheetrock plug and screw it back to the joist.
Add some 1/4 in. x 2 in. wood strips if necessary to keep the sheetrock plug level.
Take some drywall compound the kind that comes in a tube, goes on pink and turns white when it dries and fill the in the seam and screw holes.

I used this tool to cut access holes in a finished basement to run 4/0 SER cable 50 ft. for a new panel installation.
Worked out great. The ceiling was textured and after putting the plugs back and squeezing in the sheetrock compound you could hardly see where the plugs were. A little paint and it would disapear completely.

AdjustableHoleCutter4.jpg

AdjustableHoleCutter3.jpg


Here's the link to one. http://www.pegasusassociates.com/RoundHoleCutter.jsp
 
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frank_n said:
Now I am using a Roto-Zip and making a notch in each beam. I cover the romex with a nail plate and I?m done. The Roto-Zip makes a lot of dust and a lot of holes.

Does anyone have a better way, or any tricks?
Click to expand...
Here's my set-up...use it for many different applications:

Rotozip (I recommend a CORDED model...I've burnt out too many cordless models)
RZ10tool_RZ_pd.jpg


Circle Cutter ~ Rotozip #CRCT1
CRCT1_pd.jpg


Vacuum attachment ~ Roto-zip #RZVAC1
RZVAC1_RZ_pd.jpg


Vacuum ~ Dewalt DC-500 Corded/cordless
DC500_1.gif


SWEET

No mess...no clean-up...done


For that trench...skip the circle attachment.

Another alternative, if accessible, is the floor above - cut a trench with a circular saw in the sub-floor, then drill the beams from above.
 
I use something similar to aline, but it only costs like $12.00. Its a simple plastic cone that goes between your drill and the holesaw. I think its made by "Racketeers". It looks like a big plastic boob.
 
I usually try flex bits for shorter runs but sometimes you must pass the wire too far. In this case, I am happy to offer my drywall patching skills for a few extra bucks after hours.:)
 
frank_n said:
I was just wondering how everyone runs wires for old work recessed lights. I tried using a flex bit, but it was hard to get the bit to go where I wanted it. I also didn’t like drilling “blind.”

Now I am using a Roto-Zip and making a notch in each beam. I cover the romex with a nail plate and I’m done. The Roto-Zip makes a lot of dust and a lot of holes. When I’m done, I recommend a drywall guy who does excellent work.

Does anyone have a better way, or any tricks?

Frank
Click to expand...

This is where we have become the areas experts. I can not tell you how many old work lights we have installed in the last year. Flex bits work great for those who have the patients to learn the tricks you can make it through 5 joists if you have the skill. they like to drive up and can go through the second floor if not carefull. the first trick is to drill the first joist with your normal 3/4" bit and run the bit to clean the hole. then run your flex bit in there to the second joist bending the back side so the the bit is as straight as possible. It is important to have two guys for this task! we rarely need to make holes in the ceiling that aren't required for the lights. make sure you go upstairs and scope out where the vent ducts are running! It is next to impossible to get around one so a hole should be made and well that is explained prior to start. when you get through each hole run the bit for a second to help clean the hole and when you push to the next joist tap the bit and make sure you are hitting wood not wire. when in doubt cut a hole. get the wire grabber "chinese finger trap" for the bit it has a fishing line swivel attached, this makes for easy pull back. We have so many referals for this type work and there is a lot of it to be done, get good and you will make a lot of homeowners happy.
 
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bikeindy said:
when you get through each hole run the bit for a second to help clean the hole .
Click to expand...
That's 90% of the secret to using those flex bits. The hole has to be pretty clean, so run the bit a good while in the hole, moving back and fourth ever so slightly. You can't really run the bit when you're pulling back, so you need to have a pretty slick hole so that you can just pull back. With the swivel type pulling grip, if you do get stuck, sometimes you can run the bit just a wee bit without twisting anything off the pull if need be.
 
bikeindy said:
This is where we have become the areas experts. I can not tell you how many old work lights we have installed in the last year. Flex bits work great for those who have the patients to learn the tricks you can make it through 5 joists if you have the skill. they like to drive up and can go through the second floor if not carefull. the first trick is to drill the first joist with your normal 3/4" bit and run the bit to clean the hole. then run your flex bit in there to the second joist bending the back side so the the bit is as straight as possible. It is important to have two guys for this task! we rarely need to make holes in the ceiling that aren't required for the lights. make sure you go upstairs and scope out where the vent ducts are running! It is next to impossible to get around one so a hole should be made and well that is explained prior to start. when you get through each hole run the bit for a second to help clean the hole and when you push to the next joist tap the bit and make sure you are hitting wood not wire. when in doubt cut a hole. get the wire grabber "chinese finger trap" for the bit it has a fishing line swivel attached, this makes for easy pull back. We have so many referals for this type work and there is a lot of it to be done, get good and you will make a lot of homeowners happy.
Click to expand...

I've come up with a great way to improve on my diversabit drilling.
I start the same way as you, I drill a 1" hole to start. I drill the 1" hole within 3" of the top of the joist, then bend the flex bit down a bit (not alot) for my next hole. This way the bit is running downhill for the rest of your drilling instead of uphill to the nice finished hardwoods on the second floor. We can normally get through 5 joists (or more with an extension) if theres nothing blocking. After I take the drill off, I hook the wire to the drill side of the bit. I think it makes for easier pulling.
 
drilling old work

drilling old work

I drill nice clean 4" remgrit holes making sure that I am not drilling blind. You can do a lot more damage than good if you hit something especially a water pipe. A couple of furring strips some sheetrock screws and a quick coat of plaster of paris or spackle if you have more time . white ceiling paint is cheap and easy and you dont have to be a pro spackler for ceilings. Tel them you will first and second coat and leave the finish coat for the pros a wet sponge does wonders. Noone wants damage to thier home and a few carpentry and drywall tricks goes a long way I also use the dewalt cordless 1/2 gal wet dry vac for cleanup homeowners will love you as an extra 15 min which you bill them for of course for touch up and clean up usually creates a nice referal and a definite callback for more work.
 
Diversabit

Diversabit

Oh by the way if you are going to buy a dversa bit without the placement tool you may as well throw it out now because you are going to do more damage than good. especially drilling up or down switch locations. you will either blow out the sheetrock in the hall or hit the conrete foundation BUY THE PLACEMENT TOOL!!!!!!!!
 
remgrit

remgrit

They come in 4 and 6 inch sizes for drilling hi hats and plastic boxes for smokes and ceiling fans. I also use the dustbowl by racketteers with a cordless milwaulkee 14.4 volt. Did I mention to reuse the slug when spackling the ceiling back shut????
 
quogueelectric said:
They come in 4 and 6 inch sizes for drilling hi hats and plastic boxes for smokes and ceiling fans. I also use the dustbowl by racketteers with a cordless milwaulkee 14.4 volt. Did I mention to reuse the slug when spackling the ceiling back shut????
Click to expand...


Dustbowl.......thats the booby lookin' thing I was describing above.....
 
I also use something similar...a cardboard box. It doesn't cost me anything
Click to expand...

I can also purchase screwdrivers from Wal-Mart but prefer not to.:)
I also like to be able to see what I'm cutting.
 
Amen. I cant believe that there are people out there drilling blind!! Nick a water pipe or gas line once. now repairs cost you more than you could have ever made in profit.
 
aw come on man, .... cutting in high hats between floors.. you must use your Che ("and a very sharp flex bit and your logical reasoning abilities of whats ahead of you by seeing whats above, hopefully no bathroom or tubs") and a quick roll of the dice. if you don't hit anything your a hero for not making any holes if you do hit something than aah what the hell "you gotta crack some eggs to make an omelet " right? .... No all kinding aside i think its always a better job if holes can be avoided at all cost. or made in closets or less important rooms were noticing patchwork in the sheet rock wont be noticed as much. were there is a will ( or a big enough check ) there is a way.
 
Bulldog1401 said:
Amen. I cant believe that there are people out there drilling blind!! Nick a water pipe or gas line once. now repairs cost you more than you could have ever made in profit.
Click to expand...

I think it's a great thing to blind drill, you can create work for all the other trades.

Most of the damage comes from the bit drifting, ruin a hard wood floor, or carpet above, wrap up a t stat cable, you have a lot chances to really do some serious damage, and the only way the blind drillers get the picture is, usually when the bit drifts, and does eniough damage to cancel all the gains from previous work done blind.

Yes, sharp bit has less chance of drift.
 
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