Older Siemens Panel

[Bigbri0104]

Hello Everyone,

I'm not too familiar with siemens equipment. The electrical panel is from the late 90's. Its and older style 200-amp MBP (ITE) that operates vertically if you were to exercise it. However, offhand does anyone know if a newer siemens ground bar is compatible (listed) with an older (ITE) panel?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[MD Automation]

Fair warning – I am an engineer and NOT an electrician.

Siemens acquired the Gould / I-T-E line in 1986, but continued to use the I-T-E name for many years afterwards.

If you look on the dead-front door label, you should see a list of the ground bar kits approved for your panel.

For example, my late 80’s Gould / I-T-E G2040MB1200 panel at my home lists (4) ground bars for the panel… GB5, GB10, GB14 and GB20.

Do you see a list of ground bars on your inside door label?

If you look up any GB5 thru GB20 on a Siemens website, they are still made today – and quite commonly available. Siemens now lists them with an “EC” prefix – like ECGB20. See the GB20 part # circled in blue below from the current ECGB20 datasheet. They come as a kit with 2 self-tapping screws that should fit existing holes in the panel - if your panel is listed for that part.

 

[Bigbri0104]

Thanks for getting back. Unfortunately, the labeling on the inside of panel door was faded really bad.

 

[MD Automation]

Thanks for getting back. Unfortunately, the labeling on the inside of panel door was faded really bad.

Understood, and certainly a common problem.

If you are positive it's an ITE panel, you can look for a set of holes 2.75" apart, like this in the Siemens documentation for those ground bars...



In my ITE / Gould panel at home, you can see those holes down low on the right side...


and the left side...

 

[tortuga]

FWIW I have never had anyone ask me if a equipment ground bar is listed for a particular panel.

 

[Master Nater]

with the correct greenlee drill/tap bit, every equipment grounding bar, is compatible. 8/32 or 10/32.

 

[kwired]

with the correct greenlee drill/tap bit, every equipment grounding bar, is compatible. 8/32 or 10/32.

If not one intended to fit a pre determined location, I always remove paint, otherwise it was tested and intended to fit that particular location. They usually have raised or some other thickened method around those predetermined holes so there is more threads engaged and the included screws are often thread cutting type of screw so they will dig into any paint in the hole.

 

[Eddie702]

I agree just drill and tap if you need to. You could also put a jumper from the new ground bar to the existing bonded neutral bar if you wanted.

 

[Master Nater]

If not one intended to fit a pre determined location, I always remove paint, otherwise it was tested and intended to fit that particular location. They usually have raised or some other thickened method around those predetermined holes so there is more threads engaged and the included screws are often thread cutting type of screw so they will dig into any paint in the hole.

a permitted method of bonding is engaging at least 2 threads (as noted in 250.8(A)(5)), and enclosures are required to have at least 1/16" thick sheet metal, this means any x/32 thread is considered "bonded." especially when one takes into consideration that there are not just one, but 2 bonding screws in most listed equipment grounding enclosures.

but if it makes you feel better to scratch the paint (that wouldn't be done in the case of installing a manufactured ECGB20 ground bar kit into pre-manufactured holes), then feel free to do so. as for me, bonded is bonded. my drill taps go a great job, unless you're sill enough to try to use them with an impact driver. then, you just have a broken drill tap.