? on 210.8(D)

[iwire]

I eagerly await your new "public input" on getting this section changed.

You will likely be disappointed, If I was to write a change it might look like this.


2017 iwire NEC

210.8 All 125 and 250 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles shall have GFCI protection.

Informational note, the exceptions have been eliminated and industry put on notice to produce equipment that plays nice with GFCIs.

I did not state it was to protect the DW and indeed it can be at any location as long as it protected the outlet (cord and plugged or direct)

I was talking about when you posted this.

To answer the original posters question (without my personal views) the intent was to protect the branch circuit to the dishwasher outlet.

That was not the intent at all. The intent was to protect a crappy appliance that might burst into flames at the end of it's life.

In my opinion this is not what the NEC was created for.


I would be willing to bet that if a GE DW catches fire with a law suit resulting that GE will will be looking to hang an EC that does not install a GFCI.

 

[kwired]

What's amazing is that the manufacturer isn't required to supply the device for installation. This could be such a simple fix - just like with hair dryers and pressure washers, the manufacturer should be required to provide a GFI cord on the product.

Or fix the reason they are catching fire. GFCI is supposed to be for protecting people from electric shock. If they are trying to protect equipment then it should be 30 or 100mA ground fault protection, not 4-6 mA GFCI for personnel protection.

 

[tom baker]

There was a long article in consumer reports a few years ago - there were dishwashers and microwaves that would start on fire when they were turned off.

 

[kwired]

There was a long article in consumer reports a few years ago - there were dishwashers and microwaves that would start on fire when they were turned off.

Remember the good old day when we had product safety recalls, now I guess when a manufacturer finds something wrong with a product they plead some third party to do something to help take care of the problem:thumbsdown:

 

[M. D.]

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) 2/4/13? The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission estimates that there are about 500 dishwasher fires in the country every year......
Recently, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission announced a voluntary recall of more than 1 million GE dishwashers because the machines? heating elements were failing and causing fires.
The dishwashers were being sold between March 2006 and April 2009. The models include GE, GE Adora, GE Eterna, GE Profile and Hotpoint...."

 

[iwire]

So apparently even with all our advanced technology we still can't seem to make an appliance that does not burst into flames and still provide the CEOs and other officers the rewards they so deserve.

 

[M. D.]

we can't even expect a simple fan not to burst into flames... they started nearly 1,000 fires a year 2007-2011

 

[ActionDave]

So apparently even with all our advanced technology we still can't seem to make an appliance that does not burst into flames and still provide the CEOs and other officers the rewards they so deserve.

Technology or not, sure seems like someone on the CMP got some sort of reward.

 

[kwired]

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) 2/4/13? The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission estimates that there are about 500 dishwasher fires in the country every year......
Recently, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission announced a voluntary recall of more than 1 million GE dishwashers because the machines? heating elements were failing and causing fires.
The dishwashers were being sold between March 2006 and April 2009. The models include GE, GE Adora, GE Eterna, GE Profile and Hotpoint...."

GFCI protecting these for this reason is treating the symptoms and not solving the problem.

GFCI still may not prevent a fire, but may remove power after the fire starts and a ground fault finally develops somewhere.

They need to solve the problem that is causing the fires:roll:

Grounding the heating element sheath and providing ground fault protection may be the way to do so, IMO this GFP needs to be within the appliance, or maybe they can take a look at what other manufacturers that are not having such troubles are doing differently.