On being an inspector

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pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
I am starting this topic, not to stir the post, but to try and help clarify both sides of the issue of being an inspector.

I started as an apprentice and worked my way through the industry.
Not too long ago, I took the position of an inspector.
Remember, 25 or so years in the industry, so this is not a beginners perspective.

Forget about the fact that there are good and bad inspectors, lets try and talk about the inspector and inspection process, and the fact that an inspector has to answer to someone above him.

Before I became an inspector, I had a definite idea of what he does, and what was being done.

When I took the position, I learned a lot about what really happens.

An inspector has to deal with issues of a job from all angles.
1. the contractor
2. the contractor's customer
3. the municipality that governs that jurisidiction

Those are usually the ones if the job is going well.

Remember in the course of a month, it could be more than 100 different contractors/individuals who work for the contractors.

During the course of normal work, we receive calls about illegal work, and municipalities who will ask questions as well.
It starts to become very time consuming, and sometimes the information will be very confusing.

okay, we get used to it, and it is part of the job.


Next, we inspect a lot of different types of work. Sometimes work we never performed, or may not understand much about.
Example:
I was asked to inspect a new MRI machine. I saw what looked wrong, but was not sure. The manufacturer's rep and the hospital engineer told me the installation was fine and code and to trust them, as they knew more.
I still was unsure, so I contacted Roger (of this forum) and he enlightened me as to how to respond, and sent me paperwork to follow up. Thanks Roger ;)

So, inspectors do take it from all angles, just as contractors have to deal with the different angles.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Pierre,

I have the utmost admiration for (most) inspectors. It is not an easy thing to tell someone they are making mistakes. You have to learn a tremendous amount of material, and everyone is looking to you to know everything about electrical work (that's a tough one).

The inspectors I have a problem with are the ones that want to turn down a job because they don't like what the code allows you to do. I actually had one consider turning down a gas station because we used PVC (in accordance with 514.8 exception 2) and he did not like it (they didn't do that back in his day).

The ones I really like are the ones that know the code, and are willing to show me where it says I'm wrong. These guys are my "new best friend" anytime they find me making a mistake. They usually treat all contractors the same, what more can you ask?

Anyway, thanks to you and all the inspectors trying to do a great job. :D
 
Re: On being an inspector

I was surprised to see this post of mine went through, because I stopped typing when I realized this was turning into a very long post. I must of hit the wrong key, as I did not complete my thoughts, so this is an incomplete post.....Oh well.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Pierre, I would be happy to see more. :)

As with any personal or business relationship: respect is a two-way street that goes a long way.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Pierre, you are very welcome. I second Hardworker and Larry's opinions.

Roger
 
Re: On being an inspector

Okay, I will add some more of my thoughts. Try to remember these are thought from the perspective of an inspector trying to do the right thing, not the one's who try to rape, pillage and plunder our industry.

When I was a worker, I would hear all kinds of stories about the inspectors, so naturally a picture of them was formed in my head. As a contractor, I actually met the inspectors, and the picture in my mind changed some for some of the inspectors, for others, the picture became even worse - and I could never understand why something was not done about literally battling some of these guys - which I finally did one day out of sheer frustration.

Like I have mentioned, I had an opportunity to become and inspector, from the chance of also being part owner of the company.


I have to say it was the hardest education I have received since being in this industry. It was like being the bartender and listening to all party's stories - I learned a tremendous amount of this industry, from the helper, to the owner, to the inspectors, the building departments, the politicians and the consumer.


It is absolutely staggering to the mind how safety and the proper job, even trying to learn the proper job takes such a back seat in this industry. Certain other industries are monitored much closer, as injury and death are not tolerated. Our industry needs to take lessons from them.

The whole problem as I see it is a lack of understanding by electrical people and people outside of the industry, as to the severity of how dangerous electricity is, and how much poor quality work is being performed - and watched over by people who do not care (maybe not understand) how much bad stuff is being done out there. (THIS COMMENT I AM MAKING IS ONLY FOR THE AREA I LIVE IN, AS I HAVE WITNESSED IT, AND I CANNOT SPEAK FOR OTHER AREAS, AS THAT WOULD BE HEARSAY)

One of the problems for inspectors who really want to do the right thing, is that not all of the people who are in a position to make it happen really care. The higher up the ladder of success they go, the more they are concerned about keeping the people happy that may have some control over them - and believe me those people are not necessarily looking to keep things in good order.

I received tremendous pressure from this one inspection I made, and it came down to a politician trying in his way to persuade me to change my mind on a bunch of violations that I wrote. After struggling all day with this, I had to go to the Sheriff to finally get a fair shut down. I caught hell for that for a long time after doing it- I was actually branded as a "problem inspector" for quite some time after it. Talk about frustrating.
Not all inspectors are willing to take the chance (I do not blame them either), I had nothing to loose.
So, when you do not understand why some inspectors are sort of not interested, their hands may have been tied in the past and now they just go through the motions - I do not condone it, but I do understand it better.

My biggest problem is I am very stubborn when it comes to stuff like that, so I fight it (sometimes very ignorantly).

I thought (very naive), that as an inspector, I could really help this industry. I have learned that there are too many obstacles in the way to be able to do this in a timely fashion. That is one of the reasons why I have recently left the company and I am now trying to pursue this endeavor from a different angle. I could just go on simply teaching, but I must love the pain, as I am moving straight forward into the battle zone - being a little less naive than I was before.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Well Pierre, incomplete or not, I think you summed things up pretty well. It would indeed make for a long post if you (or any inspector) would detail out all of the ins-and-outs of our positions. Just as it would if the contractors would do the same thing. The important thing, for inspector and contractor alike, is to realize what each other deals with daily. I've made this statement more times than I can count, but I'll say it again: There's no reason for there to be an adversarial relationship between inspectors and electricians. I tried to live by that mantra when I was contracting and continue to live by it as an inspector. Safety of electrical installations is the ultimate goal for all of us and as such, we really are (or should be) working together.

Nobody likes to be told that they're wrong. Not electricians, not homeowners, not inspectors. But wrong we ALL are from time to time. That's why we inspect jobs. Not to find something wrong, but to make sure everything is right. It's a subtle distinction when you just read the words, but if you think about it, they're worlds apart. And that's why it's important that there is good communication between electricians and inspectors. We sometimes err in our interpretation of the code, and talking through it with the electrician can allow these errors to be corrected.

Sometimes the attitude towards inspectors on this site can get downright owly. And that bothers me. Sure, we've all seen the posts on here where the inspector was wrong and wouldn't budge. It happens. But as inspectors, I'm sure we could all tell you stories about the contractor who is still doing work that doesn't meet the code and won't budge. That happens too.

I like to look at it this way. As an inspector, I'm not the "all powerful AHJ". I'm a resource for the electricians and homeowners. To answer questions, to help with problems, and to provide information. I'm there, as I said, to make sure installations are right and safe. That's the bottom line. At least as I see it.
 
Re: On being an inspector

The three pros and cons of being an inspector.

Pro: The respect and courtesy shown by contractors on a daily basis.

Con: The disrespect and insult shown by contractors on a daily basis.

Pro: The responsibility and personal reward of being able to sign my name to a job well done in the development of my community in complete co-operation with the contractor.

Con: The responsibility and personal struggle of having to sign my name to questionable work with absoutley no co-operation with the contractor.

Pro: Being able to use my talent, knowledge and experience to its full extent when judging, evaluating, and interpreting the installations of work in the industry I am passionate about and and truely enjoy.

Con: Realizing on a daily basis that my talent, knowledge, and experience is not nearly complete and never will be and that there are many things I don't know or understand and have never seen before and just when I think I know it all, reality slaps me in the face and I have to acknowledge I need the advice of others and more training and more education and that I will never stop leanring. Now that I think of it, this may not be a con after all. :eek:
 
Re: On being an inspector

Originally posted by bphgravity:

Con: Realizing on a daily basis that my talent, knowledge, and experience is not nearly complete and never will be and that there are many things I don't know or understand and have never seen before and just when I think I know it all, reality slaps me in the face and I have to acknowledge I need the advice of others and more training and more education and that I will never stop leanring. Now that I think of it, this may not be a con after all. :eek:
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Bryan, although I'm not an inspector, I can relate, well said.
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Roger
 
Re: On being an inspector

Bryan,
Excellent post . Makes me proud to call myself an inspector.

In reading I was also thinking about:
Pro: Being able to share that knowledge and experience to others in the trade.
Con: Realizing that few are interested.

I believe thats one reason I like to forum;
reading or posting, you find good folks passonite about the industry and the added knowldedge we find here.
(thanks Mike Holt)
 
Re: On being an inspector

Speaking from my previous experience as an inspector here are some of the rules I followed: (1) You do not make the rules, you enforce them.
(2) Respect the electrician earning a living.
(3) Remember the public pays your wages.
(4) It may not be the way you would do it, but it Code compliant.
(5) You are never too old to learn, keep up to date.
Still nationally certified by NFPA/IAEI for another year, then I'm hanging it up.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Originally posted by john m. caloggero:
Speaking from my previous experience as an inspector here are some of the rules I followed: (1) You do not make the rules, you enforce them.
(2) Respect the electrician earning a living.
(3) Remember the public pays your wages.
(4) It may not be the way you would do it, but it Code compliant.
(5) You are never too old to learn, keep up to date.
Still nationally certified by NFPA/IAEI for another year, then I'm hanging it up.
Click to expand...
Very good John.
I deal with far to many inspectors that do not follow even one of those simple rules. :(
 
Re: On being an inspector

Originally posted by john m. caloggero:
(1) You do not make the rules, you enforce them.

(4) It may not be the way you would do it, but it's Code compliant.
Click to expand...
These two are key. There are well meaning but ill-advised inspectors who disregard these two axioms, and it's a shame. It makes the process resemble russian roulette. :)
 
Re: On being an inspector

For the most part guys we reap what we sow.
E.C.`s and inspectors do not always wake up on the right side of the bed.I might not show it here but believe me all my inspectors know me very well and we have a great respect for each other.
There was one new inspector that was just off the scale.He`s come down to earth some but that took allot to do.
I`m not an inspector,just an ole crachity by the seat of my pants electrician.I love my job but hate having to work :D Since I am not going to give up some habits like eating ,guess I`ll stick around another 30+ years
There was a new marshall in town about 4 years ago.He had his shiny new code book and a stack of red tags.He was going to save the world.
We bucked heads really hard for awhile.Eventually he transferred to the other side of the county :D Around this time last year one of our biggest builders wanted to get the #`s in before years end.We had more than 40 finals called for the same day.
I took a 2 man crew to meet with the inspector.When I nexteled him and it said that horrible notice.The nextel # is not available....I called the other inspectors and his calls were split between 2 others.One is the salt of the earth.The other was the Marshall that transfered.
We set a time so both of them could do their thing at the same time.I sent the service crew with the one great guy and I went with #2.
Went great about 1/2 way through he stopped ,turned and appoligied to me.For what I asked. Oh great here comes the hammer.For being such an A^& H$@# when I started.I tagged you for things I had no business red tagging you when you were there with me and I do apologize for not letting you clear the minor items :eek:
As it turned out 40 finals 40 passed 6 roughs we got to 3 passed and rolled what was left for another day.
I realize the AHJ`s job is one I want no part of.From your cheifs to homeowners to ec`s to shoddy work that`s the same things time after time.I was offered the chance to get walked through the county they were so short handed.Then I found out what the start and cap was.I couldn`t believe the #`s they get.Anyway guys thats my story and I`m sticking to it.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Pierre, here is a thread (ECN) from a couple of years ago that you might remember, it looks at the best and worst of inspector styles.

Roger
 
Re: On being an inspector

The first thing that went through my mind as I read that thread today..."has to be fake".
Get to the end of the thread...some things never change! :D
 
Re: On being an inspector

I wouldn't have expected anything different Scott,it seems as though you are expressing unadulterated envy.

Tighten up and you may get some recognition. ;)

BTW, if you think the letter was for me, you can sleep well tonight knowing it wasn't. :roll:


Roger
 
Re: On being an inspector

Pierre, sorry to hear your endeavors didn't pan out the way envisioned them. I remember you were pretty stoked about your new opportunity.
I guess the old saying "The grass is always greener" rings true once again. Good to hear you weren't one to just fold under pressure! :)

George wrote:
"Excellent posts on this topic, fellas."

Yep, Ditto.
 
Re: On being an inspector

Dave
I appreciate the comments.

Things did not work as I had hoped, but I am not a quitter. I have done enough back peddling in my days, so now I try to move forward in my endeavors. If this angle does not work, I will try something else. I seem to have the support of both the contractors and the inspectors now - lets wait and see ;)
I do have my detractors - as we can all see, that just makes me work harder.
 
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