One more time please!

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Re: One more time please!

Hold on there Mike!

Don't forget, I'm the one asking the question in the first place! I'm the one that's confused! :)
 
Re: One more time please!

680.42(C) does not give permission to use NM cable to supply a PANEL , it gives permission to use NM cable to supply the disconnect that will supply the equipment assembly.
If you are installing a panel to the hottub, then using a raceway method is required. as this will be in the .25 feeder requirements.

My understanding of the reason for requiring an insulated equipment ground for pool installations is to protect the bare copper from the effects of the chlorine that may get into the wiring system.
 
Re: One more time please!

Originally posted by pierre:

My understanding of the reason for requiring an insulated equipment ground for pool installations is to protect the bare copper from the effects of the chlorine that may get into the wiring system.
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Thank You Pierre, I have done some research on this but no real answers. Yours makes sense.
:)
 
Re: One more time please!

I agree with websparky?s (Dave?s) post that NM cable can supply a hot tub inside a dwelling unit.

I have been in a discussion in another forum about a hot tub located on the inside and lost sight of this thread. If the tub is located on the outside and feeders are run to separate panel then the following applies.

680.25 Feeders.
These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system.
(A) Wiring Methods. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight, flexible nonmetallic conduit, or rigid nonmetallic conduit. Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where installed on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubing shall be permitted where installed within a building.
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:)

[ October 06, 2005, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
 
Re: One more time please!

:eek:

ok, I think I understand what's going on here.

Sorry guys, I plead temporary insanity!

Not only did I completely misread a few posts but I thought Mike was talking to me when he said "Dave". I didn't know your name was Dave too Mr. Websparky!

Bare with me and let me know if I have this down correctly now please!!!

If I were to install the GFCI breaker in the main panel and run the 6/3 as a branch circuit to a disconnect, the NM is permitted per 680.42(C).

BUT

If I run the 6/3 as a feeder to a sub panel where I have the GFCI breaker also serving as the disconnect, then the NM is NOT permitted per 680.25.


Thanks Pierre! How's the career move going?
 
Re: One more time please!

So now that we know the difference, please somebody tell me why it matters if it is insulated if it goes to a panel outside, but not a disconect if the branch breaker is located back at the main panel. The clorine gas does not know the difference.
 
Re: One more time please!

In the words of the famous Rober Keis, " this is like picking fly sh__ out of pepper. If it is ok to be run as a branch indoors of a dwelling as nm, it should also be allowed to be run indoors of a dwelling as a feeder to a panel indoors as nm cable. Then from the panel out to the tub in conduit with an insulated ground so the really intelligent clorine gas will not attack the grounding.. excuse me, Bonding conductor. Too many confused panel members at the nec perhaps.
 
Re: One more time please!

Originally posted by davedottcom:
If I were to install the GFCI breaker in the main panel and run the 6/3 as a branch circuit to a disconnect, the NM is permitted per 680.42(C).

BUT

If I run the 6/3 as a feeder to a sub panel where I have the GFCI breaker also serving as the disconnect, then the NM is NOT permitted per 680.25.
Click to expand...
If this post was correct... that has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard!
 
Re: One more time please!

Originally posted by macmikeman:
In the words of the famous Rober Keis, " this is like picking fly sh__ out of pepper. If it is ok to be run as a branch indoors of a dwelling as nm, it should also be allowed to be run indoors of a dwelling as a feeder to a panel indoors as nm cable. Then from the panel out to the tub in conduit with an insulated ground so the really intelligent clorine gas will not attack the grounding.. excuse me, Bonding conductor. Too many confused panel members at the nec perhaps.
Click to expand...
I have found that when something baffles me as bad as picking any thing out of pepper that don?t look like pepper then I make a proposal and get an explanation.
 
Re: One more time please!

I would consider the hot tub switch a disconnect (240v double pole) for the tub and not a panel allowing then NM wire to travel through the inside of the house to the outside wall mounted disconnect for the hot tub. This would apply the same way for a A/C house disconnect which we all do it this way also. NM through the wall to the disconnect. I'm I missing something here or are we trying to make this hard.
Jim
 
Re: One more time please!

Ditto to the nm to disc/2p switch/Subpanel.But who am I just an old rusting electrician. ;)
 
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