Open 3 wire service

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Fmkehoe said:
ok so 2 hot and 1 neutral unsheathed. So I'm guessing it's an Open 3.
The 2 came from a"know-it-all" who said the neutral is not counted because it's not hot.
I win. Lol. Thanx all.
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You have 3 service conductors,yes, but as for it being open or not is the way the wires are run.

Triplex is most common IME for a 100 A service.
 
jumper said:
You have 3 service conductors,yes, but as for it being open or not is the way the wires are run.

Triplex is most common IME for a 100 A service.
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I agree, they likely want to know if they have to work with a triplex or three individual conductors when they come to do any work. Might even want to replace three individual conductors with a triplex if that is what is existing.
 
kwired said:
I agree, they likely want to know if they have to work with a triplex or three individual conductors when they come to do any work. Might even want to replace three individual conductors with a triplex if that is what is existing.
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It just seems to me that the question would have been more easily understood if it was phrased a bit different.

Like this: Is the utility service triplex or open single wires? _________

For me, that is clearer.
 
jumper said:
It just seems to me that the question would have been more easily understood if it was phrased a bit different.

Like this: Is the utility service triplex or open single wires? _________

For me, that is clearer.
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I agree. People that make up such forms can have a tendency to use their own slang and can be confusing for those that don't know the slang or those that try to stick to standard terminology of the business/trade.
 
There were some open conductor 2 wire services around here 40-50 years ago. 120 volt 30 amp services. When the utility replaced the open conductors with triplex, they would connect both hots at the pole, and just cap off the unused one at the house....until they found that some customers were connecting to the capped off hot for free power. There were not very many of these 30 amp services, so they went back and disconnected the unused conductor at the pole.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There were some open conductor 2 wire services around here 40-50 years ago. 120 volt 30 amp services. When the utility replaced the open conductors with triplex, they would connect both hots at the pole, and just cap off the unused one at the house....until they found that some customers were connecting to the capped off hot for free power. There were not very many of these 30 amp services, so they went back and disconnected the unused conductor at the pole.
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If I were the POCO supervisor, I wouldn't disconnect said lines, I'd swap them over to a high leg where possible:ashamed1:

Then if they are stupid enough to complain you can come check it out and still have them charged with theft of service.
 
kwired said:
I agree, they likely want to know if they have to work with a triplex or three individual conductors when they come to do any work. Might even want to replace three individual conductors with a triplex if that is what is existing.
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I think this most likely as well.

but on hooking up a high leg to somebody who is stealing power... That would be close to Impossible here, physically. Never seen an open Delta in a residential neighborhood before.

I know you were joking, but the second somebody fries a CPAP machine, oxygen generator, or cable modem and loses the ability to dial 911, all heck will break loose.

Swap me over to an unmetered high leg service, I'm going to have a field day installing a 208 / 240- 120 transformer,... :angel:
 
JFletcher said:
I think this most likely as well.

but on hooking up a high leg to somebody who is stealing power... That would be close to Impossible here, physically. Never seen an open Delta in a residential neighborhood before.
:
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You would find them in Richmond and parts of Southwest VA.

They go back to the 1930s or so when AC cooling became available. The AC was three phase.
 
ptonsparky said:
Yes, some of the really nice older homes had hi leg delta to the A/C.
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Yep. Unfortunately, I found this out the hard way as an apprentice.

I simply did not expect it, no one warned me about it, I did not understand what I was looking at and did not ask.:ashamed1:

Not a good thing.

I may have burned up a thing or two......:angel:
 
jumper said:
You would find them in Richmond and parts of Southwest VA.

They go back to the 1930s or so when AC cooling became available. The AC was three phase.
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Absolutely. A friend's parents' house on Monument Ave, near Westmoreland, had that, the typical three conductors plus a red #10 (I think) that fed only the external AC disconnect.
 
jumper said:
You would find them in Richmond and parts of Southwest VA.

They go back to the 1930s or so when AC cooling became available. The AC was three phase.
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And that was a common use of a "delta" breaker. It was used to feed those AC loads.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
And that was a common use of a "delta" breaker. It was used to feed those AC loads.
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In the case I mentioned above, the high leg never entered the house, but I have seen the delta breaker used. It had a four-space-sized body, similar to a small 3p shunt-trip breaker. Two lines were powered by the panel buses as usual, and the third line, which had no bus connection, was powered by a terminal on the fourth body section, also no bus connection.
 
JFletcher said:
I think this most likely as well.

but on hooking up a high leg to somebody who is stealing power... That would be close to Impossible here, physically. Never seen an open Delta in a residential neighborhood before.

I know you were joking, but the second somebody fries a CPAP machine, oxygen generator, or cable modem and loses the ability to dial 911, all heck will break loose.

Swap me over to an unmetered high leg service, I'm going to have a field day installing a 208 / 240- 120 transformer,... :angel:
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I don't know that many 120 volt only meters are still around after POCO's have gone to digital meters with remote reading. There weren't many 120 volt only services around here and very possible they ran 240 volts to those even if customer is only using 120 when switching out the old mechanical meters.
 
And along Broad street there were businesses that used 240 high leg delta for machines and AC, while the townhomes (built in 1900-1920) along Grace street shared the same alley and poles, used the 120/240 portion off one transformer.

Many apartments also built 1900 to 1940 in Richmond had individual 120 V 30 A two wire services which used two Edison fuses, 15 amps each at initial installation, now were 60 amp two wire services! Those microwaves, toasters, window AC and space heaters were hell on 15 amp fuses.:D

I've even seen the two Edison fuses in a porcelain holder inside the apartment, sometimes mounted on a wall with no enclosure!:jawdrop:

Yes, Knob & Tube is still common for me to work on.;)
 
Everything Frank said. I'm still in Richmond, and still deal with these scenarios.

It's easier to comprehend the high-leg service if you think of it as a modification to an existing 1ph service.
 
LarryFine said:
Everything Frank said. I'm still in Richmond, and still deal with these scenarios.

It's easier to comprehend the high-leg service if you think of it as a modification to an existing 1ph service.
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+1

Exact same 120/240 units are used to build the system for pole mount transformer banks, the 120/240 single phase ties directly across one of those units, the one with center tap grounded, the one or two others have center tap floating and you still have 120/240 single phase even of you lose one or both the other two units.
 
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