Opposition To The Changes In The Nec

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Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

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Westchester County, New York
I have been receiving the NEMA newletters in regards to code adoption for different states and jurisdictions.

It seems that there is considerable opposition to Arc Fault, Tamper Resistant Receptacles, Weather Resistant Receptacles, etc...
I see this for the 2005 and the 2008 versions of the NEC.

I wonder if the NFPA is going to come out with some kind of statement in this regard. The resistance is very stiff and seems to be gaining momentum.


One thing about politicians. They follow the "main stream" patterns, not necessarily what is good or bad.

I guess by the fall we shall see where most of the chips are going to lie.
 
All the arc-fault hooplah, and I still haven't seen the afci receptacle or dead-front that is permitted to be within 6 circuit feet from the panel. :smile: :-?
 
Some people just need to have a "cause" or a mission to feel good about themselves. Good or bad, that's just how some people are.

Water off a duck's back.
 
I haven't heard anything about Georgia making amendments to the code, and I don't anticipate them to. They had some things for the building code up until '06 making it less stringent, but now they're pretty much accepting it as is. They had a couple of amendments for the '05 NEC that added more GFCI protection in commercial settings. I expect them to fully enforce everything in the '08 NEC.
 
brantmacga said:
I haven't heard anything about Georgia making amendments to the code, and I don't anticipate them to. They had some things for the building code up until '06 making it less stringent, but now they're pretty much accepting it as is. They had a couple of amendments for the '05 NEC that added more GFCI protection in commercial settings. I expect them to fully enforce everything in the '08 NEC.
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My guess would be that CA will do the same thing.
 
brantmacga said:
I haven't heard anything about Georgia making amendments to the code, and I don't anticipate them to. They had some things for the building code up until '06 making it less stringent, but now they're pretty much accepting it as is. They had a couple of amendments for the '05 NEC that added more GFCI protection in commercial settings. I expect them to fully enforce everything in the '08 NEC.
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i've heard that georgia accepted the afi extention but took out the combo's
 
I think it's about time someone stands up to the NFPA and the companies lining their pocket. The arc fault requirements are BS and have always been BS.
 
wireman71 said:
I think it's about time someone stands up to the NFPA and the companies lining their pocket. The arc fault requirements are BS and have always been BS.
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What you don't seem to understand is that nobody's forcing anyone to adpot the NFPA suggestions at all. They make a book of suggestions. It's up to your state or locality to adopt them as a whole or with amendments or not at all. Nobody needs to stand up to anyone for publishing a book of suggestions.
 
But it's been the book of laws for so long, to just now be a book of suggestions, Ode to 1975 NEC.

Isn't it a great thing that all laws adopted are usually for the betterment of people in general, that government, and our laws and through the use of standards (and yes I've read your trade law requirements/vs cost ratio to the GP.) gain a better standard of living.

Any or all building codes while they might inhabit some it is a minimum code or standards that help us today expect this to be maintined by LAW or Code, thue enriching all our lives. Darn Uptopic!

I do like the cavaliar nature of the response, Marc.

Now I know what the 90's say!
I don't think we'll hear anything from the NEC because of the 90's Statement.

Football is in the Fall ! :D
 
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zdog said:
i've heard that georgia accepted the afi extention but took out the combo's
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i haven't heard that. they didn't take them out of the '05 NEC. I have a code class next week; maybe I can find out for sure.
 
mdshunk said:
Some people just need to have a "cause" or a mission to feel good about themselves. Good or bad, that's just how some people are.

Water off a duck's back.
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That could apply equally to the CMP who approved all the requirements for AFCI, or to the people in government who are trying to eliminate these requirements.
 
Washington State just announced its list of proposed changes to the 2008 NEC. If accepted, they will be published as part of the Washington Administrative Code. Here is what the proposed change has to say about AFCI requirements:

NEC 210.12(B) is amended to require AFCI protection only for dwelling unit bedroom spaces.
(a) Dwelling Unit Bedroom spaces include spaces that:
(A) Are used as the bedroom;
(B) Are accessed only through the bedroom;
(C) Are ancillary to the bedroom's function (e.g. closets, sitting areas, etc.);
(D) Contain branch circuits that supply 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere, outlets; and
(E) Are not bathrooms.
 
Washingtons draft rules are out, for adoption Dec 31, 2008. No arc faults (same as 05 NEC), not adopt the section in 334 on NM cable protection in crawl spaces, delay requirements on tamper proof and weather resistant until 2010 to allow old products to be used up, change conduit support from 18" to 36" (my proposal).
But its only a draft and subject to a committee and public hearings.
 
I serve on the State Task Force which recomends adoption and or ammendments to the 2008 NEC in Georgia. There are several amendments pending which will get voted on May 7th. Change is never easy and the soft residentail economy is fueling resistance to full adoption; which I favor. I am completly unaware of the malfuntionality of AFCI's. I favor the recomendations of this Code Edition to further enhance saftey and save lives.:cool:
 
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Mn hearing on adopted rules went as expected adopt without any amendments..It is going in front of the law judge in may and then we will see what happens..But as it stands now 30 days after acceptance we are on 2008 fully..

I think some of the new codes like the GFCI requirement on sump / sewage pumps and Air exchangers is wrong..The gfci will trip from leakage current and old sump pump / sewage pump will have leakage..The raw sewage spill has allot of health risks involve and costs associated with it..The preventable health risk and unnecessary financial risks are greater than the accidental death that may occure..Verses the knowen and life long health risks associated with moderate term exposure of raw sewage..Besides these receptacles are located in Limited access areas..

I believe the exposure of my grandkids to raw sewage would be more devastating with the long term associated health issues then it was when my sons was accidentally killed..So I do believe that code requirement is wrong..

So I guess the real issue is getting Americans on the ban wagon..Couple of very well written letters and some insurance facts sent to the news media should bring some sort of attention to these issues..Just because one person in a 250,000 people were accidentally killed by electricity does not equal to the 100 people who suffered from indoor air quality issues due to unintentional GFCI faults that are preventable..
 
Mike Bean said:
I serve on the State Task Force which recomends adoption and or ammendments to the 2008 NEC in Georgia. There are several amendments pending which will get voted on May 7th. Change is never easy and the soft residentail economy is fueling resistance to full adoption; which I favor. I am completly unaware of the malfuntionality of AFCI's. I favor the recomendations of this Code Edition to further enhance saftey and save lives.:cool:
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Mike,

I hear talk about AFCIs, tampers, weather resistant, GFCI exceptions but I never hear anything about what I consider the most overreaching of all new requirements. . 680.26(B)(2) added the word "unpaved" for 2008. . There are no exceptions or other wording that would give relief for aboveground pool installations. . What used to be a process of removing a large circle of grass, leveling the dirt, adding sand, and putting up the pool has now expanded to the "unpaved" lawn. . Undisturbed grass 18" to 24" away from the pool has to be dug up at least 4" down. . The alternative is to rent a knife trencher.

Is this even showing up on the "radar screen" ?
Is this being debated/discussed at all ?
 
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