Options for FC measurement for Code Enforcement

[wrobotronic]

Hi again Everyone,
A colleague of mine has an interesting issue. He is in Code Enforcement (not of the NEC but of zoning type regulations). He has asked me to use my limited expertise to help and naturally I turn to this forum for the correct info.

He has been receiving complaints about external lighting from a business that is located near a residential neighborhood. The residents are stating that the lighting is overly bright and disrupts sleep, etc. The regulation states that an exterior luminaire shall have a Foot Candle reading of 150fc at 200 Feet from the source. I have not confirmed this statement, nor do I know what book this info comes from. Regardless of the statement's accuracy, I guess my question is.... "what type (brand/ model) of light meter can I buy that would properly measure the Foot Candles from various forms of luminaires? IE Fluorescent, HPS, MH, LED, Incandescent, etc"

Then, is it possible to have these measurements be taken in daylight, so his officers don't have to go creeping around at night to acquire the needed info?

Hopefully, I asked this in an understandable way and in the correct section.

Thank you.

 

[Coppersmith]

an exterior luminaire shall have a Foot Candle reading of 150fc at 200 Feet from the source.

Then, is it possible to have these measurements be taken in daylight[?]

I'm going make a guess and say "no". The sunlight of the day will interfere with the reading. I'm assuming that's a maximum of 150FC at 200 feet.

 

[wrobotronic]

I'm going make a guess and say "no". The sunlight of the day will interfere with the reading. I'm assuming that's a maximum of 150FC at 200 feet.

The maximum assumption is correct from the info that I have been given.

So, with your guess of "No" to the daylight portion, do you have any suggestions otherwise? Even if the measurements have to be taken at night.

 

[Coppersmith]

Again a total guess, you'll need some kind of light meter (I don't know which kind) at night and maybe even have to take the readings in the neighbors yards if 200 feet away falls there.

 

[jumper]

I may search more later, but off the top of my head the only similar code I know of would be for lights that create a hazard like roadside sign spotlights not properly angled that could blind a driver.

A lot of people around me have similar complaints about the new LED street lights that the city put up. City informed them that the new lights meet all applicable codes and that the people should close their shades.

 

[wrobotronic]

I may search more later, but off the top of my head the only similar code I know of would be for lights that create a hazard like roadside sign spotlights not properly angled that could blind a driver.

A lot of people around me have similar complaints about the new LED street lights that the city put up. City informed them that the new lights meet all applicable codes and that the people should close their shades.

The code numbers or distances don't really matter to me (just using them as reference to the situation). I am just looking for something to take the measurement. I also suggested to my colleague that the cut sheet of the light fixture itself should give us some indication of what the FC should be. IDK, perhaps as usual I am making this way to difficult.

But, yes GOLLY!!! that would be nice to be able to tell people. lol

 

[jumper]

My guess is the new lights are most likely fine, the residents, like here, are just not used to them and are complaining. Common.

A month from now one will prolly even still be noticing them.

 

[gadfly56]

My guess is the new lights are most likely fine, the residents, like here, are just not used to them and are complaining. Common.

A month from now one will prolly even still be noticing them.

MagLite's XL50 is rated at 200 lumens, which is the same as 200 foot candles. The projected beam is good to 224 meters. How long do you think it would take you to get used to that shining through your window?

 

[jumper]

MagLite's XL50 is rated at 200 lumens, which is the same as 200 foot candles. The projected beam is good to 224 meters. How long do you think it would take you to get used to that shining through your window?

Cannot say, hard to get through 2 sets of insulated curtains and full blinds in my case.

Unless there is an actual code or ordinance, or it can be proved that the lights are a real public nuisance, which is really hard in many cases, people will simply have to come up with a way to deal with it.

Yes, the lights may be annoying, but actual violations are another matter. Similar to noise ordinances, hard to nail down unless it is egregiously obvious to an authority, such as the police.

 

[gadfly56]

Cannot say, hard to get through 2 sets of insulated curtains and full blinds in my case.

Unless there is an actual code or ordinance, or it can be proved that the lights are a real public nuisance, which is really hard in many cases, people will simply have to come up with a way to deal with it.

Yes, the lights may be annoying, but actual violations are another matter. Similar to noise ordinances, hard to nail down unless it is egregiously obvious to an authority, such as the police.

A prescriptive ordinance with clear metrics and a light meter will probably do just fine. Poking around via Google, many jurisdictions forbid unshielded lighting of any type, so if the source is exposed in the OP's case, that might be an obvious violation.

 

[jumper]

A prescriptive ordinance with clear metrics and a light meter will probably do just fine. Poking around via Google, many jurisdictions forbid unshielded lighting of any type, so if the source is exposed in the OP's case, that might be an obvious violation.

Totally possible.

Also possible that it is no more then that people in a resi area are just not used to the new corner mini-mart and are overly sensitive.

I understand that the people may have a legitimate complaint but sometimes they are just overreacing also. Seen both situations occur.

 

[Fulthrotl]

He has been receiving complaints about external lighting from a business that is located near a residential neighborhood. The residents are stating that the lighting is overly bright and disrupts sleep, etc. The regulation states that an exterior luminaire shall have a Foot Candle reading of 150fc at 200 Feet from the source. I have not confirmed this statement, nor do I know what book this info comes from. Regardless of the statement's accuracy, I guess my question is.... "what type (brand/ model) of light meter can I buy that would properly measure the Foot Candles from various forms of luminaires? IE Fluorescent, HPS, MH, LED, Incandescent, etc"

Then, is it possible to have these measurements be taken in daylight, so his officers don't have to go creeping around at night to acquire the needed info?

yes, there is. google asense lighting passport.

the meter will produce a complete color spectrum
analysis, and tell where tyranny will strike next, i think.

it also will subtract background lighting. i don't know if
that will do what you want. call asense up and ask them.
sit down before you ask the price.

$2,300. is it worth it? for me, yes. i had the first one stolen,
and bought another one immediately.

there is also this one, on itunes. it works well enough to
do what you need to do. about a buck and a half.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Cannot say, hard to get through 2 sets of insulated curtains and full blinds in my case.

Unless there is an actual code or ordinance, or it can be proved that the lights are a real public nuisance, which is really hard in many cases, people will simply have to come up with a way to deal with it.

Yes, the lights may be annoying, but actual violations are another matter. Similar to noise ordinances, hard to nail down unless it is egregiously obvious to an authority, such as the police.

new exterior lighting in calif. has to have 100% horizontal light cutoff. no light pollution.

so your tweaker neighbor who put up the 1,000 watt HPS aimed horizontally, so he can
see "them" when he peeks out the blinds at night, is not allowed to do that any more.

we have a local program to help our tweakers. we give them free carrots to improve their night vision.

it the carrots don't work, we mumble into a bullhorn at two am. freaks them right out. they flush everything
down the toilet, turn off the light, and hide in the closet till 10 am the next morning.

 

[jumper]

new exterior lighting in calif. has to have 100% horizontal light cutoff. no light pollution.

so your tweaker neighbor who put up the 1,000 watt HPS aimed horizontally, so he can
see "them" when he peeks out the blinds at night, is not allowed to do that any more.

we have a local program to help our tweakers. we give them free carrots to improve their night vision.

it the carrots don't work, we mumble into a bullhorn at two am. freaks them right out. they flush everything
down the toilet, turn off the light, and hide in the closet till 10 am the next morning.

The tweaker neighbor that the people around me at the moment are complaining about is the City of SF.

New LED cobra head street lights. The lights are compliant and I told them, but they need something to whine about.

 

[wwhitney]

200 lumens, which is the same as 200 foot candles.

Not quite. A foot candle is a lumen per square foot. I had to look that up, though.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[dkidd]

This table is from

http://www.lightingassociates.org/i/u/2127806/f/tech_sheets/light_trespass_and_light_pollution.pdf

The lighting levels allowed are fairly low. They would need to be measured on a dark night.

 

[gadfly56]

This table is from

http://www.lightingassociates.org/i/u/2127806/f/tech_sheets/light_trespass_and_light_pollution.pdf

The lighting levels allowed are fairly low. They would need to be measured on a dark night.
View attachment 19429

Even the "high ambient brightness" level is only 1.5 FC. Did someone shift the decimal point in the information the OP received? 150 FC sounds like it would about melt your eyeballs by comparison, but that doesn't sound right to me.

 

[jumper]

Even the "high ambient brightness" level is only 1.5 FC. Did someone shift the decimal point in the information the OP received? 150 FC sounds like it would about melt your eyeballs by comparison, but that doesn't sound right to me.

OP said that was at 200 feet, which is confusing also.

 

[wrobotronic]

MagLite's XL50 is rated at 200 lumens, which is the same as 200 foot candles. The projected beam is good to 224 meters. How long do you think it would take you to get used to that shining through your window?

Thank you very much... This looks pretty good.

 

[dkidd]

Not quite. A foot candle is a lumen per square foot. I had to look that up, though.

Cheers, Wayne

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