Or this one

[roger]

Re: Or this one



[ October 23, 2003, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[Guest]

Re: Or this one

Bill,
No. I'm not saying that.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Or this one

Originally posted by awwt: Regarding GFCI for laundry in unfinished basements check out 210.8(A)(5)

I wouldn?t apply Exception 2 to laundry machines. The phrase ?dedicated space for each appliance? doesn?t match the situation. When the owner says, ?I think we should put the washer here, and we?ll never have to move it,? that doesn?t create a ?dedicated space.? If you construct a special above-counter cabinet for holding a microwave oven, or if you build an ?appliance garage? on the countertop, then you have a ?dedicated space.? What eludes me is how Exception 2 would ever be invoked. What sorts of appliances would be installed in a ?dedicated space? of an unfinished basement?

 

[Guest]

Re: Or this one

Charlie,
I'm with you.

However, if you connect the dots in the NEC it leads to the conclusion as I stated it. It's pretty much right out of the Handbook. Start with GFCI and follow the links in the Handbook and you'll see how I arrived at this destination. It's not clearly spelled out in the NEC, but the Handbook comes to the stated conclusion.

 

[roger]

Re: Or this one

awwt, please explain this

Keep in mind that this thread has been edited so at this point I really can't easily tell what portions of the thread existed at the time I posted my answers.

before we move on.

And I would like some expansion here

No. I'm not saying that.

too

Of course, I've always expected people to be accountable for their statements as I am for mine.

Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: Or this one

Charlie B

As far as equipment that may take dedicated space, a freezer/fridge is an example. Also a washer/dryer is also considered equipment that can take dedicated space.

The requirement for GFCIs is pretty well spelled out in the NEC. What I will say is that in every code cycle, there are changes to the particular requirements for GFCIs. I have noticed that a lot of people still think that the 6 foot rule still exists. The only place in the code that you will find that requirement is for wet bars.

I can remember when we installed a GFCI next to the panel in the garage and it was wired to protect any and all the receptacles that had to be GFCI protected .

Pierre

 

[roger]

Re: Or this one

Pierre,

I can remember when we installed a GFCI next to the panel in the garage and it was wired to protect any and all the receptacles that had to be GFCI protected

me too. Thinking about it, this made good sense in that it was when there was only one or two circuits involved, and with the price of breakers considered, it was the best scenario.

I remember seeing the lead GFCI receptacle in one of two or three bathrooms which made things real convenient. (sarcasm) :roll:

Roger

 

[Guest]

Re: Or this one

Roger,
In 1994 I remember getting service calls for bathrooms, etc. being offline. I knew when I got there that I'd just be resetting a GFCI button. The dispatcher would try to get the HO to reset the button, but they seemed to have a hard time finding that lead receptacle. It was a no-win situation, but fortunately easily solved. Push a button. Be a hero. Smile. On to the next calamity.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Or this one

Originally posted by pierre: Charlie B, As far as equipment that may take dedicated space, a freezer/fridge is an example. Also a washer/dryer is also considered equipment that can take dedicated space.

I would accept a kitchen refrigerator as requiring a dedicated space. That is because the kitchen cabinets are designed with a empty area that matches the height and width of a standard sized fridge. If you put something else in that space, there would be no place to put the fridge.

But a stand-alone freezer, a washer, and a dryer do not share that characteristic. The owner can move them around. For example, I could move my washer to the other side of the laundry tub, and I can move my freezer to a different room entirely. These items are not in dedicated spaces. So I reaffirm that I wouldn?t apply Exception 2 of 210.8(A)(5) to laundry machines.

 

[Guest]

Re: Or this one

I did not leave a trail of breadcrumbs, but I found the Handbook reference that got me off on this jag. It was in the last place that I looked. It immediately follows 210.8(A)(5). Bold added for emphasis by me.

An unfinished portion of a basement is limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like. The receptacles in the work area of the basement shown in Exhibit 210.12 must have GFCI protection. Section 210.8(A)(5) does not apply to finished areas in basements, such as sleeping rooms or family rooms, and GFCI protection of receptacles in those areas is not required. In addition, freezer and laundry receptacles do not require GFCI protection, in accordance with 210.8(A)(5), Exception No. 2.

The more times I read it the less I understand its intent But the NEC disclaimer says Handbook interpretations are not to be relied on

../Wayne C.

[ October 27, 2003, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]