osha and working live

[SmithBuilt]

"Deenergized parts." Live parts to which an employee may be exposed shall be deenergized before the employee works on or near them, unless the employer can demonstrate that deenergizing introduces additional or increased hazards or is infeasible due to equipment design or operational limitations. Live parts that operate at less than 50 volts to ground need not be deenergized if there will be no increased exposure to electrical burns or to explosion due to electric arcs.

Note 1: Examples of increased or additional hazards include interruption of life support equipment, deactivation of emergency alarm systems, shutdown of hazardous location ventilation equipment, or removal of illumination for an area.

http://www.osha.gov

On note 1 it states removal of illumination for an area. This seems vague but I have a situation where I might use it. I could shut down the entire floor of the office but then I would not have any power or lighting to do the job.

The only way to get power would be to run and extension cord thru a couple of doors and down the stairs to the floor below. Wouldn't that be a violation also?

Opinions welcome.

 

[iwire]

Shut it down run a cord.

I believe that you are going to see "removal of illumination for an area" removed in future OSHA publications.

 

[zog]

http://www.osha.gov

On note 1 it states removal of illumination for an area. This seems vague but I have a situation where I might use it. I could shut down the entire floor of the office but then I would not have any power or lighting to do the job.

The only way to get power would be to run and extension cord thru a couple of doors and down the stairs to the floor below. Wouldn't that be a violation also?

Opinions welcome.

The NFPA 70E removed this exception from the 2004 70E, portable lighting is always safer than working live. Battery power lighting or generators and tape down your cords, we do it every day, that is a poor excuse.

The phrase "I have a situation where I might use it" scares me, makes me think you are looking for a loophole for not needing to de-energize equipment.

 

[Buck Parrish]

[The phrase "I have a situation where I might use it" scares me, makes me think you are looking for a loophole for not needing to de-energize equipment.[/QUOTE]

I'm kind of curious as to the "situation", too.

 

[SmithBuilt]

Bob
I love your answers clear concise and to the point.


Zog,
I think that's the current link. So it's still in there. I wish it wasn't.



I was pandering to the customer when I should be looking out for us. Thanks for the reality check.



Is it an OSHA violation to run a cord thru a door? Are there ways to do it an be in compliance?

 

[zog]

Zog,
I think that's the current link. So it's still in there. I wish it wasn't.

Is it an OSHA violation to run a cord thru a door? Are there ways to do it an be in compliance?

That is the current OSHA link, same as it has been since 1981, nothing there has changed. OSHA enforces the NFPA 70E through its general duty clause and the current 70E has removed the "Illuminition from an area" exception.

I know of no OSHA violations for running a cord through a door (For a few hours anyway), you should tape it down to prevent trip hazards.

 

[iwire]

I know of no OSHA violations for running a cord through a door (For a few hours anyway), you should tape it down to prevent trip hazards.

As far as I know this is as close as it gets.

1910.305(a)(2)(x)
Flexible cords and cables shall be protected from accidental damage, as might be caused, for example, by sharp corners, projections, and doorways or other pinch points.

Block the door open and it seems you would be good to go.

 

[SmithBuilt]

Thanks.

I now remember the OSHA reference to 70E from previous posts.

 

[Mr. Mike]

NOT Working Live

NOT Working Live

I was pleased to read some of you encouraging others to not work on energized circuits without extenuating circumstances requiring that you do. During my 34 years split between nuclear submarines and nuclear weapon support facilities, working on energized circuits was very rarely done. Implementation of a rigidly enforced LOTO system was the norm with all affected workers signing the LOTO paperwork prior to commencing work. Now that I'm retired I wouldn't dream of working on an energized circuit. The DOE (Dept. of Energy) stays on top of events involving injuries and the primary reason why workers are injured is human error-disregard for safety measures. Having also worked overseas supervising multi-national operations in foreign-ran shipyards, the disregard for personal safety and the lack of enforcement by the host nation was often down right scary.

Sure, hanging a DANGER TAG and personal padlock and performing a zero energy check before commencing work adds a few minutes to a job but also better assures you'll go home at the end of the day. Besides that, its part of the Code of Federal Regulations. Don't just talk safety - do it, demand it, and encourage others to know and follow the rules...

 

[zog]

I was pleased to read some of you encouraging others to not work on energized circuits without extenuating circumstances requiring that you do. During my 34 years split between nuclear submarines and nuclear weapon support facilities, working on energized circuits was very rarely done. Implementation of a rigidly enforced LOTO system was the norm with all affected workers signing the LOTO paperwork prior to commencing work. Now that I'm retired I wouldn't dream of working on an energized circuit. The DOE (Dept. of Energy) stays on top of events involving injuries and the primary reason why workers are injured is human error-disregard for safety measures. Having also worked overseas supervising multi-national operations in foreign-ran shipyards, the disregard for personal safety and the lack of enforcement by the host nation was often down right scary.

Sure, hanging a DANGER TAG and personal padlock and performing a zero energy check before commencing work adds a few minutes to a job but also better assures you'll go home at the end of the day. Besides that, its part of the Code of Federal Regulations. Don't just talk safety - do it, demand it, and encourage others to know and follow the rules...

I am an ex nuke sub guy too SSN-701, EMC(SS), now working on 1E Safety related power circuit breakers and systems for nuke plants, which may explain may strong stance on not working on energized equipment. That and my close involvement with the NFPA 70E commitee and accident investigations, seeing some smart kid in a burn unit fighting for his life because his boss told him to work something hot because they always have done it that way changes your perspective a little .

 

[Mr. Mike]

I am an ex nuke sub guy too SSN-701, EMC(SS), now working on 1E Safety related power circuit breakers and systems for nuke plants, which may explain may strong stance on not working on energized equipment. That and my close involvement with the NFPA 70E commitee and accident investigations, seeing some smart kid in a burn unit fighting for his life because his boss told him to work something hot because they always have done it that way changes your perspective a little .

My boat was a little older, SSN-603. Left USN in 1978. Unfortunately for some it takes seeing someone they know get seriously injured before they take safety requirements seriously. Glad to hear that you're a part of an accident investigations team.

 

[JW 569]

If you used the lighting as a loophole to leave the equipment energized, you would still have to wear arc flash protection. Trust me, when you have to start wearing that stuff, you find ways to deenergize just to avoid all of the problems associated with it. Unless, of course, you work better in live equipment when your sweating profusely, have limited vision and no dexterity.:grin:

 

[safetyva]

As far as I know this is as close as it gets.

Block the door open and it seems you would be good to go.

But also check:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)
Unless specifically permitted otherwise in paragraph (g)(1)(ii) of this section, flexible cords and cables may not be used:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(A) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(B) Where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(C) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings;

 

[billsnuff]

1910.305

1910.305

In other words, flexible cords when used in temporary wiring may be run through doorways, windows, or similar openings provided they are protected from damage, but cannot be used as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure; run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors; attached to building surfaces; or concealed behind building walls, ceilings, or floors.

from the following interpretation:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25369

good reading

 

[muskiedog]

Shut it down.

Shut it down.

That is exactly how I got zapped. Didn't want to shut down the lights due to production. Wiring a ballast and the insulation was damaged from the heat. Took it throught the arm throught the cieling rafters. Arm hurt for 5 days. Good think it went throught the arm. I immediately went and shut down the lights. Never wired live a gain.

I want to make it home.

 

[HighWirey]

That is exactly how I got zapped. Didn't want to shut down the lights due to production. Wiring a ballast and the insulation was damaged from the heat. Took it throught the arm throught the cieling rafters. Arm hurt for 5 days. Good think it went throught the arm. I immediately went and shut down the lights. Never wired live a gain.
I want to make it home.

Just a short question:

Exactly whom did not want to "shut down the lights"?

Best Wishes Everyone

 

[steveng]

go navy

go navy

I am an ex nuke sub guy too SSN-701, EMC(SS), now working on 1E Safety related power circuit breakers and systems for nuke plants, which may explain may strong stance on not working on energized equipment. That and my close involvement with the NFPA 70E commitee and accident investigations, seeing some smart kid in a burn unit fighting for his life because his boss told him to work something hot because they always have done it that way changes your perspective a little .

hey zog, i knew you must be a sailor, me too, FDR cva-42 uss franklin d. roosevelt, 74-76, i bet there's a bunch of navy on this site.

as for working hot, i have to change my ways, i have been working hot, i must confess, but, after reading you guys posts, i am starting to get right and sober up.
thanks

 

[iwire]

But also check:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)
Unless specifically permitted otherwise in paragraph (g)(1)(ii) of this section, flexible cords and cables may not be used:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(A) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(B) Where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(C) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings;

Those sections apply to permanent installations of cord, not temporary use.

If you try to apply those sections to temporary installations you pretty much could not use cords at all.

 

[JohnJ0906]

But also check:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)
Unless specifically permitted otherwise in paragraph (g)(1)(ii) of this section, flexible cords and cables may not be used:
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(A) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(B) Where run through holes in walls, ceilings, or floors;
1910.305(g)(1)(iv)(C) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings;

How on earth could you run an extention cord from a generator inside to work?
Can't run through the doorway
Can't run through a window
Can't run through a hole in the wall.
I guess I had better bring that loud, CO belching thing inside where I am working.

 

[zog]

1910.305(a)(2)
Temporary wiring. Except as specifically modified in this paragraph, all other requirements of this subpart for permanent wiring shall also apply to temporary wiring installations.
1910.305(a)(2)(i)
Temporary electrical power and lighting installations of 600 volts, nominal, or less may be used only as follows:
1910.305(a)(2)(i)(A)
During and for remodeling, maintenance, or repair of buildings, structures, or equipment, and similar activities;