'Other Than Dwelling Units'

[kwired]

The problem I see with that is the subsection title is Dwelling Units... it is not Dwelling Unit Receptacles.

(A) should be broken down into two subheadings: receptacles and other outlets.

I agree, and in previous editions of the NEC all that was 210.8 covered was receptacle outlets, any other items requiring GFCI protection was covered in other code sections - like GFCI requirements for swimming pool equipment would be found in 680 and not in 210.8.

I think they wanted to get this diswasher in there bad enough that they didn't take the time to figure out how it should be worded. I still think if the main reason is because of component failures - it needs addressed by listing agencies and or the CPSC and not by the NEC. If listing should decide GFCI is necessary then it either needs to be in the installation instructions or even incorporated into the listed appliance - JMO.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The problem I see with that is the subsection title is Dwelling Units... it is not Dwelling Unit Receptacles.

(A) should be broken down into two subheadings: receptacles and other outlets.

Exactly what they did when they added (C) & (D).

 

[Smart $]

Exactly what they did when they added (C) & (D).

Not exactly. They should have change (A)'s heading to Dwelling Unit Receptacles in doing so. Or combined both (A) and (B) into a header of Receptacles and subheaded as Dwelling Units and Other Than Dwelling Units.

Another issue is limiting the new dishwasher requirement to a dwelling unit kitchen. There is no requirement to install a dwelling unit dishwasher in a kitchen, though that is the common location. So the hazard presented by a dishwasher is only present when installed in a dwelling unit kitchen?

 

[George Stolz]

Please recount for us exactly where else you've seen dishwashers, how many have not been in kitchens, and how many people were shocked by them.

 

[Smart $]

Please recount for us exactly where else you've seen dishwashers, how many have not been in kitchens, and how many people were shocked by them.

I don't know of anyone getting shocked by a dishwasher of the electric kind.

And I have seen dishwashers installed in areas that wouldn't necessarily be classified as kitchens (no permanent provisions for cooking). Not many, but a few.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Not exactly. They should have change (A)'s heading to Dwelling Unit Receptacles in doing so. Or combined both (A) and (B) into a header of Receptacles and subheaded as Dwelling Units and Other Than Dwelling Units.

Another issue is limiting the new dishwasher requirement to a dwelling unit kitchen. There is no requirement to install a dwelling unit dishwasher in a kitchen, though that is the common location. So the hazard presented by a dishwasher is only present when installed in a dwelling unit kitchen?

Online "public inputs" are due by 5pm November 7, 2014.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Please recount for us exactly where else you've seen dishwashers, how many have not been in kitchens, and how many people were shocked by them.

The GFCI requirement for dishwashers has nothing to do with a shock hazard. The proposal was from the manufacturers and was intended to prevent equipment end of life fires, not shocks.

 

[kwired]

I don't know of anyone getting shocked by a dishwasher of the electric kind.

And a proper EGC to the appliance pretty much eliminates that hazard. You can throw in all the what if's imaginable - but why stop with a dishwasher if that is the approach, we need to GFCI everything at all voltages, cord connected and non cord connected if you want to include every possible what if.

And I have seen dishwashers installed in areas that wouldn't necessarily be classified as kitchens (no permanent provisions for cooking). Not many, but a few.

I had one we removed from the house in the shop for a while - makes a good parts washer. I have connected a dishwasher or two at wet bar locations, did not have permanent cooking provisions so not a kitchen.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I had one we removed from the house in the shop for a while - makes a good parts washer. I have connected a dishwasher or two at wet bar locations, did not have permanent cooking provisions so not a kitchen.

I like the parts washer idea.

I've hooked up, or worked around, dishwashers in pantries in high end homes. None of those pantries have come close to the definition of kitchen, but they had a lot of storage for the entertaining dishes and silverware.

 

[Smart $]

Online "public inputs" are due by 5pm November 7, 2014.

I'll work on an input when I get a chance. I'll be working 6-12's for two or three more weeks.

 

[mprhd7]

Thank you ALL

Thank you ALL

Thank you all for your valuable and some not so valuable input.
I understand now how the NEC code book reads as far as my question went.
(D) is not part of (C) simply put.

For those of you that questioned teaching from the 2014 NEC, our students are just starting out. The state requires 8000 hour of work before filling out an application to take the General Electrician tests (Journeymen s test). So by the time they get the required hours the state should be testing on 2014. FYI, State of CA is still testing on 2008 which I understand is going to change soon, 2011 NEC.

Thanks again to all.




QUOTE=mprhd7;1568716]Greetings to all, I am an instructor at an electrical trade school in Southern California and preparing to start teaching from the 2014 NEC Code Book.
We have a question in regards to Article 210.8 GFCI's.
Question: what is meant by 'Other Than Dwelling Units'? There doesn't seem to be a clear definition in the code book for this section.

Article 210.8 (D), (newly added), seems to contradict the statement of Article 210.8 (B), 'Other Than Dwelling Units'. as it states, .......outlets that supply dishwashers installed in dwelling unit locations.

Please Advise.....[/QUOTE]

 

[electrofelon]

The GFCI requirement for dishwashers has nothing to do with a shock hazard. The proposal was from the manufacturers and was intended to prevent equipment end of life fires, not shocks.

I am sure I am preaching to the choir here, but come on Nfpa you have got to be kidding: "we are dishwasher manufacturers and our products are crap. Can you get electricians to install gfci protection so we can continue making our stuff crappy?"