Outdoor Low Voltage conduit run

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hitehm

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Las Vegas NV
Hey guys, I tried the low voltage forum with no success so far on any help. However, this is just as much an NEC code question so any help is appreciated.

Here is my original post (sorry, if there's a way to move a thread to different category I don't know how):

I have to extend a residential 12 volt camera power cable from the point where it pops out of the back stucco wall over to the center of the patio cover ceiling. It's only about 4 feet. I will use a box at the initial exit point and a 90 deg elbow and conduit over to a second box to mount the camera in its new location. The cable is regular old 22/4 comm cable. Here are my questions:

1 - I'd like to use emt instead of ent tubing but I would like to use non metallic boxes if possible. Since it's low voltage and only on the exterior meaning non of this conduit work will penetrate into the house is this ok to mix the metallic conduit with the plastic boxes?

2- If NOT ok in quesiton 1 and I have to use metal boxes with the metal tubing, is there any bonding needed of the emt? Note that the 12 volt circuit inside the conduit is not grounded.

Any help and code reference appreciated.
 
Welcome back to the form.

You do not have to ground the Raceway for this install, although I do not have a code reference to back that up at the moment. Chapter 7 and chapter 8 installs are not subject to chapter three rules nor chapter 2 unless specifically cited

EMT and non-metallic boxes is fine. Operationally, the biggest thing will be how you make the splices on to the existing cable. 22 / 4 is not a common size if they are twisted pairs you need a proper Cat6 splice to extend that cable. As far as I know, Cat6 only comes in 23 gauge. If they are not Twisted pairs, just Old Bell wire and the signal is okay now, you should be able to use scotchlok UY2 connectors to extend each wire.

Eta: " regular old Comm wire" is a bit ambiguous. cat3 CAT5 and Cat5e are usually 24 gauge. If it's one of those. And twisted pair then use a Cat5e splice block. The UY2 2-port yellow beanies can accept anywhere from 19 to 26 gauge wire if I remember correctly.
 
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12V,,,, 4 Feet,,,, I'm not going to tell you what I'd do. :angel:

JAP>
 
JFletcher said:
Welcome back to the form.

You do not have to ground the Raceway for this install, although I do not have a code reference to back that up at the moment. Chapter 7 and chapter 8 installs are not subject to chapter three rules nor chapter 2 unless specifically cited

EMT and non-metallic boxes is fine. Operationally, the biggest thing will be how you make the splices on to the existing cable. 22 / 4 is not a common size if they are twisted pairs you need a proper Cat6 splice to extend that cable. As far as I know, Cat6 only comes in 23 gauge. If they are not Twisted pairs, just Old Bell wire and the signal is okay now, you should be able to use scotchlok UY2 connectors to extend each wire.

Eta: " regular old Comm wire" is a bit ambiguous. cat3 CAT5 and Cat5e are usually 24 gauge. If it's one of those. And twisted pair then use a Cat5e splice block. The UY2 2-port yellow beanies can accept anywhere from 19 to 26 gauge wire if I remember correctly.
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Hey JFletcher, thanks for the reply, very helpful. Question, when you say "Chapter 7 and chapter 8 installs are not subject to chapter three rules nor chapter 2 unless specifically cited" is this specifically specified in the NEC somewhere?
 
jap said:
12V,,,, 4 Feet,,,, I'm not going to tell you what I'd do. :angel:

JAP>
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Hey JAP, I know the question seemed a little obvious. I guess what I was concerned with was "bonding" the metal parts that a separated by plastic outside for keeping them at equal potential. Wasn't at all concerned with the actual conductors inside. Was probably totally over thinking it! Thanks.
 
hitehm said:
Hey JAP, I know the question seemed a little obvious. I guess what I was concerned with was "bonding" the metal parts that a separated by plastic outside for keeping them at equal potential. Wasn't at all concerned with the actual conductors inside. Was probably totally over thinking it! Thanks.
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It's not going to make a difference with that type of cable an voltage installed inside of it.
More of an issue of if the cable itself is rated for outdoor use.

JAP>
 
hitehm said:
Hey JFletcher, thanks for the reply, very helpful. Question, when you say "Chapter 7 and chapter 8 installs are not subject to chapter three rules nor chapter 2 unless specifically cited" is this specifically specified in the NEC somewhere?
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See 90.3, code arrangement. Chapter 8 installs are not subject to chapters 1 through 7 unless specifically referenced. Chapter 7 supplements or modifies chapters 1 through 4.

That written, you do not have to ground or Bond either the race way or the Box. If the 2017 NEC has changed that I'd simply use ENT or PVC and plastic boxes.

I'm pretty sure Jap would splice it open air since
limited energy splices do not have to be made in a box... and it is only 4'. ENT is the best choice though for security purposes.
 
JFletcher said:
I'm pretty sure Jap would splice it open air
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I just love it when people I don't even know speculate and put in writing what they think I would or wouldn't do.

With that being the case, I think JFLetcher would worry himself so much about extending this that he'd hire it done. :)

JAP>
 
jap said:
I just love it when people I don't even know speculate and put in writing what they think I would or wouldn't do.

With that being the case, I think JFLetcher would worry himself so much about extending this that he'd hire it done. :)

JAP>
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So how would you do it?
 
You don't know how you'd do it because you don't know the whole circumstance unless you were able to visit the site and decide for yourself how best to move the cable.

JAP>
 
jap said:
How would you do it?

JAP>
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I usually have 1/2" EMT on me and metal bell boxes so I would probably just use EMT, mostly out of convenience.
I would not bond the EMT to anything unless other circumstances required it.
(I dont usually carry PVC smaller than 3/4")
 
tortuga said:
I usually have 1/2" EMT on me and metal bell boxes so I would probably just use EMT, mostly out of convenience.
I would not bond the EMT to anything unless other circumstances required it.
(I dont usually carry PVC smaller than 3/4")
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But your speculating that this is the only solution.

So, as long as we're speculating.

I'd go to the house next door to the one you did, that has the exact same scenario, pull the cable back into the attic, make the splice there, poke the wire out right behind the camera location where you couldn't see it, and my customer and I would sit on the patio with a drink, and make fun of how ugly your install was with the exposed conduit and boxes while admiring how good ours looked. :)

JAP>
 
jap said:
I just love it when people I don't even know speculate and put in writing what they think I would or wouldn't do.

With that being the case, I think JFLetcher would worry himself so much about extending this that he'd hire it done. :)

JAP>
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my reply was intended as a joke, not any dig at your craftsmanship or professionalism. I apologize if it came off that way.
 
For those wondering how this was done, see the attached pic. The end result was that the only non-metal part I ended up using was the plastic bell box that was used for it's cover to mount the dome camera. The original camera location was where I put the metal LB to extend it up and over to a much better viewing position. I dislike using ENT outside if I don't have to. It's never straight and warps easily, sags without a mess of straps, discolors in the desert heat, and is just plain ugly imho compared to EMT. The conduit and fitting also tend to have much more noticeable writing on them compared to emt which turns off some customers. People tend to do conduit on their homes reluctantly so the better you can make it look the better. Of course, much of this is all personal opinion.
 

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hitehm said:
For those wondering how this was done, see the attached pic. The end result was that the only non-metal part I ended up using was the plastic bell box that was used for it's cover to mount the dome camera. The original camera location was where I put the metal LB to extend it up and over to a much better viewing position. I dislike using ENT outside if I don't have to. It's never straight and warps easily, sags without a mess of straps, discolors in the desert heat, and is just plain ugly imho compared to EMT. The conduit and fitting also tend to have much more noticeable writing on them compared to emt which turns off some customers. People tend to do conduit on their homes reluctantly so the better you can make it look the better. Of course, much of this is all personal opinion.
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Is that an offset nipple coming out of an LB with SS connectors and no box offsets I see?

JAP>
 
jap said:
Is that an offset nipple coming out of an LB with SS connectors and no box offsets I see?

JAP>
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There is an offset on the box not visible in the pic. BTW, the lb already placed the conduit flat against the the exterior. The nipple happen to raise that elbow up to the perfect height so I used what I had on the truck. There is no SS fittings there, the fittings are labeled for EMT and just say "steel" on the package.
 
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