Outlet Facing

[goldstar]

Re: Outlet Facing

Where do you guys get these wonderful photos to cut and paste ? Is there a website that we all should know about ?

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Outlet Facing

Roger I ain't gonna tell if you don't.

Ronald

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Outlet Facing

Those four pole breakers are very expensive too.
And don't forget to oversize the neutral since we will be using one ungrounded line twice.

Ronald

[ April 04, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]

 

[roger]

Re: Outlet Facing

Cmon Ronald, can't we tell?

Roger

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Outlet Facing

Its hillbilly secrets you no that Roger!

 

[nascardoug]

Re: Outlet Facing

I pondered this some time ago and discovered that spec grade recptacles are marked with the ground up.........I found out that UL tests them this way..... If not spec grade I guess it does not matter which way they are installed...Doug

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Outlet Facing

Q: Should receptacles be mounted with the ground pin up or the ground pin down?
A: This is one of the most common questions the technical group is asked. There is no code or any other requirement that mandates the orientation of a receptacle in regard to ground pin up or ground pin down. It is a recommendation to install it with the ground pin up. The reason for this is if a metal object, such as a tape measure or kitchen utensil, should fall and strike a grounded plug the ground pin is the first to come in contact with the object. If the ground pin is installed down the first blades the object would strike would be the hot and the neutral. Preference of the ground pin orientation seems to be in many areas, a cosmetic decision. The GFCI receptacle is manufactured with reversible markings on the test and reset buttons to allow installation for either preference.

The above quote is from Pass & Seymour's website. They are one of the manufacturers who mark their spec grade receptacles with the word "top" on the yoke. When you intall the receptacle with the word "top" at the top the ground pin will be up.
Don

 

[gmgerry]

Re: Outlet Facing

Thanks. It's good to be here to learn.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: Outlet Facing

don in your post i would agree that if the manufacturer has a ul listing for a device with noted up/down shown that it would have to be installed with the ground up,but I still like the smiley face the receptacles make when ground is down.............. This was a long thread in previous forum and looks like the same here......

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Outlet Facing

a.wayne,
If the UL listing required the ground pin to be up, then it would be a code requirement. The UL listing does not require the ground to be up. The word "top" on the yoke of some receptacles is a manufacturer's recommendation or instruction, it is not a listing and labeling instruction. The code does not require that manufacturer's recommendations and instructions be complied with, only that the listing and labeling instructions be complied with.
don

 

[iwire]

Re: Outlet Facing

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
The word "top" on the yoke of some receptacles is a manufacturer's recommendation or instruction, it is not a listing and labeling instruction. The code does not require that manufacturer's recommendations and instructions be complied with, only that the listing and labeling instructions be complied with.
don

Don, Can you explain listing and labeling instructions, and how we know the difference between a recommendation and a requirement.

With the word top embossed on the yoke how is this not labeling, I agree that ground up or down is not a code issue but I am confused about how Listing, Labeling and Instructions all fit in with 110.3(B)

I have always been told and Joe T. always pushes that the instructions must be followed to comply with 110.3(B), but I have seen you say before that the instructions are not part of it.

I am not trying to be a pain in the a** but I would like to know what 110.3(B) actually means or includes.

If I had an appliance that the instructions say needs a dedicated circuit is that a recommendation or a requirement?

Thanks, Bob

[ April 13, 2003, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Outlet Facing

Bob,
That is a good question and very difficult to answer in the field when working on a project. There is no way to know unless you have a copy of the actual standard. The only instructions that are included in 110.3(B) are those that are an actual part of the listing process, not necessarily those included with the product. A good case to illustrate my point is the use of "classified" breakers. These breakers have been tested to the same standards as the OEM breakers for the panels in which the breaker has been classified for use in and are permitted to be used in any panel that they have been classified for. The manufacturer's instructions always say that you can only use brand X breakers in brand X panels. This is an example of a manufacturer's instruction that is not part of the listing and labeling.
This is just one of many code issues where I do not aggree with Joe T.
Don

 

[iwire]

Re: Outlet Facing

Don, Thanks for the reply, it does not make sense that this would not be made clear for the field installer.