Outlets on One 110 circuit

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mlindamood

New member
OK i am a accountant so please excuse my lack of knowledge... I am putting an addition on my house which is a 24x24 room that has 10 oulets, 2 ceiling fans, and 4 sunken lights. It also has an attached garage below this that is 24x24 that has 10 outlets, 2 automatic doors, 3 outside lights. This was all wired to one 110 circuit and they are trying to tell me that will be OK.. Now the room is our living room were the stereo and TV and stuff will go. The Garage is used as a Garage but also for my husband's practice space for his band. With all that said I am wondering if they have overloaded this circuit? Please let me know what code is and what would be recommended for a situation like mine... Any help would be get so I know what I am talking about with these people. They have already screwed up the HVAC and I have addressed this issue now I have to deal with the electrical side of things? I live in the country and there is no real inspections or building code...
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I presume that the "they" to which you refer is a set of electrical contractors who installed this for you. If it is anything else, then our Forum rules would prohibit us from giving you any assistance.

The code article that applies here is 220. It is long, and it is not easy to follow. It tells you how much load you need to take into account, when sizing the service to your house or sizing the wiring inside your house.

When "they" say "it will be OK," they are probably saying they don't think the breaker will trip. That is probably because they don't think you will have stuff plugged into all 20 outlets at the same time. They are probably right about that.

I don't think this installation violates code. I would not have designed it this way. I would have used 2 circuits. But that is a design choice, not a code requirement. The code is only interested in the minimum needed for a safe installation. The code even has a disclaimer at the beginning, essentially saying that the minimums are not guaranteed to make the system work to the satisfaction of the owner. Here again, owner satisfaction is not a safety issue, so the code does not speak to it.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I disagree. Under the rules of 220.3(A) the calculated load for that single circuit serving two rooms of 576 sq. ft. each would be 3456 volt amps or 28.8 amps. This load needs to be supplied by two 15 amp circuits as a minimum.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I would not have put everything on one circuit but it may still meet code.
220.3a does not require you to count the garage in with the square footage of house, not a good idea but code.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

You say there are no real inspections or building code in your area because you live in the country? Are there any other kind of inspections or codes? I apologize for being a smarty pants. Living in the country does not relieve one of the laws adopted by the state. I don't know where you live but it is my guess that most states have laws that require electrical inspections and have adopted electrical codes. There are many others that frequent this site that are far more knowledgeable than I and maybe they can confirm this.

In either case, if you are concerned and want it inspected I would think there should be some way to have that done.

Bob
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I have been using the max rule of thumb as aprox. 600 sq ft / circuit .But that in itself is streching it.To me the necessary amount of circuits depends on what the homeowner has told me they would install in the area to be wired.True the garage isn`t factored in but that is because the formula required is for occupied space.
10 receptacle outlets in the garage, 2 GDO`s ,576 sq. ft of occupied space,Tv`s ,stereo equiptment and to be used for band practice too.Although by the letter of the code it is borderline compliant whoever wired all this on one circuit has IMO done you an injustice.
The biggest question is has drywall been installed yet. If not now would be the time to make any corrections.Another question would be was there a scope of work listed for electrical installation .If not My guess is that it will cost a few $$$ to make the changes now.Better than when all completed you continually have to go reset a breaker when the band kicks in and the MRS. opens the garage door while the recessed cans are on and I am sure there will be a refridgerator somewhere in this.Everone has thier own way of wiring me I like to ensure lights won`t dim and big screens and computers won`t reset when voltage drops from what is a code compliant but poorly designed wiring system.
I`d opt for the gdo`s and garage and exterior lights on 1 circuit.Depending on needs 2 gfci receptacle circuits for 10 receptacles in the garage and finally 2 circuits in the living area above the garage.Also is there a closet in the 2nd floor of the garage,That could be considered a possible bedroom and afci`s might be required as well as smoke detectors.You didn`t mention a bathroom was added so we will not bring that into the picture.Basically if you are looking for a cut and dry answer of what is code for this room addition,as pointed out it is compliant but a poor design.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

You say that you are in the process of installing this addition. If that is so, then you just need to request that an additional circuit or two be installed. Many electricians are so used to people only looking for the cheapest price that they don't offer to do anything extra. It may be that there is only one space left in the panel. If so, this is a good time to install a new service or a sub-panel. If the electrician hesitates to do either of these, then please do not allow him to do any work on your property. He is probably unlicensed and doing the work "under the table". Any reputable electrician will be more than happy to work with you to make sure that you are happy with the final installation. It may cost you a few dollars more now, but it will be worth it in the long run.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Originally posted by travisw:
I would not have put everything on one circuit but it may still meet code.
220.3a does not require you to count the garage in with the square footage of house, not a good idea but code.
Click to expand...
hmmm... yep, that's right.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Originally posted by Mlindamood:
I am putting an addition on my house which is a 24x24 room that has 10 oulets, 2 ceiling fans, and 4 sunken lights. It also has an attached garage below this that is 24x24 that has 10 outlets, 2 automatic doors, 3 outside lights. Now the room is our living room were the stereo and TV and stuff will go. The Garage is used as a Garage but also for my husband's practice space for his band.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, a minimum of four circuits should be run:
1) The upstairs receptacles
2) All lighting and garage-door openers
3 & 4) The garage receptacles, alternating circuits

Better yet would be a sub-panel, at least 30 amps @ 240/120 volts with at least six circuits:
1) Upstairs receptacles
2) Upstairs and exterior lighting
3) Downstairs lighting and garage-door openers
4, 5, & 6) Garage receptacles, alternating circuits

What I mean by "alternating circuits" is every second or third receptacle on a circuit (i.e., A,B,C,A,B,C, etc.)
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Larry the alternating circuits might be a bit overkill but as far as the amountof circuits we are in the same ball park.To me one lousy circuit is a poor way to wire an addition. like this.
What i like to do is think of it as what would i do if it was my home.Using that thought the H/O`R usually goes along as long as you don`t try to gig and gouge them.Without eyeballing the situation all this is speculation but i agree in this case more is better.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I suppose one circuit per wall for receptacles would be okay, too. Remember, a band will be practicing here, too.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I just finished a similar addition. I did the electrical work under the supervision, instruction and inspection of an older than dirt, semi retired (still licensed) electrician. I pulled all the wire, installed fixtures etc. and paid for his expertise.
Just as a point of reference in a 700 sf garage w/ 700 sf of living space upstairs we installed two separate lighting circuits, separate circuits for the GDO's, and two separate 20 amp outlet circuits. 12 outlets plus A/V, data and phone circuits were installed upstairs and 8 GFI outlets were installed in the garage.
My electrician's philosophy is why not exceed code requirements since the cost of wire/outlets etc is minimal when considering the total cost of the project. I agree.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

This is one of those "you can probably get away with it" situations.

However, it is not ideal. You may wish to consider just what you might want to do in the future and make your choices based on that.

It could be that the cost of running additional circuits might convince you that what you have is "good enough".
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Originally posted by WMitch:
...and 8 GFI outlets were installed in the garage.
My electrician's philosophy is why not exceed code requirements since the cost of wire/outlets etc is minimal when considering the total cost of the project. I agree.
Click to expand...
I hope you didn't waste money by using more than one GFCI receptacle per circuit instead of wiring them feed-through.
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Now Larry that would depend on what is intended to be used in the garage.$3.00 breaker + $6.00 gfci device + $1.00 worth of wire + $10.00 of not having to reset a breaker when the grinder is running and the drill press is drilling oh and of course the fridge is keeping those beers ice cold :D Some overkills are warranted ;)
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

I did indeed use one GFI per outlet @$9.00 each. Lots of power tools in my garage. The whole electrical material cost for the addition was less than $500 including a sub panel and outside lighting. I thought that was pretty cheap and it was less than what the older than dirt electrician charged me.

[ October 28, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: WMitch ]
 
Re: Outlets on One 110 circuit

Hey carefull there some of us resemble that remark.I had a helper that said I was older than dirt so what did I walk on when I was younger? Quick reply...... Water son just Water :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top