Outlets per circuit

[e57]

220.14(J) in the '05

(J)​

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​

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Dwelling Occupancies. In one-family, two-family, and
multifamily dwellings and in guest rooms or guest suites of
hotels and motels, the outlets specified in (J)(l), (J)(2), and
(J)(3) are included in the general lighting load calculations
of 220.12. No additional load calculations shall be required
for such outlets.
(1) All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating
or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits
in 210.1 1(C)(3)
(2) The receptacle outlets specified in 21O.52(E) and (G)​

(3) The lighting outlets specified in 210.70(A) and (B)

 

[LarryFine]

Larry. Do you keep receptacles and lights seperate?

Whenever possible, practical, and/or practicable, and I prefer 20a for most receptacle circuits. I wouldn't bother with a small space with a couple of lighting receptacles and a single fixture, but for most rooms, yes.

For example, I'd put a few bedrooms' receptacles, along with the hall receptacle(s) on a 20a circuit, and their ceiling lights/fans, bath and hall lights, etc., on a 15a circuit. Only one bedroom's receptacles, maybe a 15a.

 

[Santee]

We use 1 20A circuit per bedroom for receptacles and lights (normally - we do houses with 1500 sq ft bedrooms, so there may be a few others in the mix). But an average house 1 per room, does not include bathrooms or halls or any other areas of house. I want that ARC fault separate from all other areas. May cost a little more but minimum code is unacceptable in my custom homes.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

We use 1 20A circuit per bedroom for receptacles and lights (normally - we do houses with 1500 sq ft bedrooms, so there may be a few others in the mix). But an average house 1 per room, does not include bathrooms or halls or any other areas of house. I want that ARC fault separate from all other areas. May cost a little more but minimum code is unacceptable in my custom homes.

1500 sq foot bed rooms ???????? hope thats a typo

 

[Santee]

Nope. It is very common for the masters in most houses we wire to be large but also the houses range from 6000 to 15,000 sq ft heated.

 

[e57]

1500 sq foot bed rooms ???????? hope thats a typo

I've done a few... Including a 2000sq' "entry" that the designers and Arch's wanted no recepticals in - had to twist some arms to get them with the backing of an inspector. The "Entry" was larger than most homes... Getting a few outlets was like pulling teeth. Bedrooms no matter how big there is less resistance of need - placement is another story...

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

i gotta ask why would anyone want a 1500 sq ft bedroom ? I can understand 600 or even 700 but beyond that why ? What do they have in them ?

 

[sparky=t]

All nec says is that for residential we allow 3 watts per sq ft for general use. 20 amps = 2400 watts so that covers 800 sq ft. That is for doing total load calculations.
I sure hope you put in more than that. Each company usually sets up there own policy of how many.

don't forget you can only load to 80%, totaly agree with the general illumination part!

 

[roger]

don't forget you can only load to 80%, totaly agree with the general illumination part!

There are very few continuous loads in a residential setting. As far as general receptacles there is no reason to figure them as continuous.

Roger

 

[buffnitup]

In my residential wiring book it just suggested 1.5A per receptacle but as everyone says it depends on the loads. There is no way to know what will be hooked up. What gets me is how does the homeowner know how to only load the circuit to 80%? haha I guess when the breaker starts tripping then an electrician will let em know.

 

[quinn77]

Larry. Do you keep receptacles and lights seperate?

uh oh...here we go:grin:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

In my residential wiring book it just suggested 1.5A per receptacle but as everyone says it depends on the loads. There is no way to know what will be hooked up. What gets me is how does the homeowner know how to only load the circuit to 80%? haha I guess when the breaker starts tripping then an electrician will let em know.

The 80 % is for continuous loads. That is 3 hours or longer. Really dought that will happen often and then just maybe the breaker will trip. #12 is still plenty safe at a few over 20 amps.

Back when i did residential i always mixed fixed lights and receptacles. I would usually start a bed room at the 2 gang switch for the fan/ light or fan and half switched receptacle. Then catch all the recepts and closet light. Never had problems even on #14 Trick is to use FPE breakers.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

uh oh...here we go:grin:

Have worked for a few companies that wanted them seperate. No problem it is there wire and i get paid by the hour. When it's my job i hold the cost down any way i can.

 

[buffnitup]

The 80 % is for continuous loads. That is 3 hours or longer. Really dought that will happen often and then just maybe the breaker will trip. #12 is still plenty safe at a few over 20 amps.

Did I misunderstand 210.21(B)(2) ans 210.23(A)(1)?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

The 80 % is for continuous loads. That is 3 hours or longer. Really dought that will happen often and then just maybe the breaker will trip. #12 is still plenty safe at a few over 20 amps.

Did I misunderstand 210.21(B)(2) ans 210.23(A)(1)?

Yes i think your misreading it. My view is they are talking about the receptacle only.

 

[buffnitup]

I see. It is just the receptacle. How does a homeowner know that they could be violating a code rule though by plugging in something that uses say 17A? This is theoretical not likely to happen. I guess for the electrician's sake if a bigger demand is needed then an individual branch circuit or bigger circuit or both is needed.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I thought this topic was the same as "ground up/ground down", taboo.:grin:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I thought this topic was the same as "ground up/ground down", taboo.:grin:

I thought we solved that. Only install 2 prong receptacles and forget about grounding anything. Inspectors will not even notice.

 

[tonyjz]

smudge

smudge

Voltage drop would limit the number by length.

 

[LarryFine]

Voltage drop would limit the number by length.

What's the length?