Overload settings for medium voltage (1 KV+)

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paulengr

Senior Member
Trying to get a handle on how to interpret 1 KV+ NEC requirements for overcurrent protection.

First, 215.3 seems pretty clear when it states, "Feeders shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with the provisions of Part I of Article 240. Where a feeder supplies continuous loads or any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the rating of the overcurrent device shall
not be less than the noncontinuous load plus 125 percent of the continuous load.". That seems pretty cut and dry. But then exception #2 reads, "Feeders over 1000 volts, nominal, shall comply with Part IX of Article 240". So the very first immediate question here is do feeders over 1,000 Volts need to comply with BOTH Part I and Part IX? In other words, is Part I the general rule and Part IX provides modifications to Part I, or do I apply Part IX exclusively and simply ignore Part I?

Second question. Article 240.100(C) requires: "(C) Conductor Protection. The operating time of the protective device, the available short-circuit current, and the conductor used shall be coordinated to prevent damaging or dangerous temperatures in conductors or conductor insulation under short circuit conditions." Yet just above it in 240.101(A) just below it, a fuse continuous rating cannot exceed 300% of the ampacity and the long term trip setting of a breaker cannot exceed 600% of the ampacity.

This latter section is the source of my confusion in general. Because if I use 300% rated fuses or 600% rated breaker relays, then clearly although there is some short circuit protection, there clearly isn't any "overload" protection at all. This is nothing like the "100% of noncontinuous load + 125% of continuous load" rule arising out of Article 215.3 which other than the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) is both very easy to understand seems very logical.

If I read Part IX as a purely prescriptive standard then I can set breakers to 600% of ampacity and fuses to 300% of ampacity. This flies in the face of good engineering sense though. So my best understanding would be that 240.100(C) applies first and foremost, reading from the general to the specific. 240.101(A) is almost extraneous because it is superceded by 240.100(C). My best guess here is that the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) from Part I is not used in Part IX. Instead it's somewhat of an "open ended" or performance based standard. This for instance allows a common practice to use 300% continuous rating E-rated fuses to protect transformers while avoiding inrush which makes them good for short-circuit protection only, and supply overload protection via protection on the secondary side of the transformer. The overload protection is downstream of the conductor being protected.

The only other logical interpretation that I can think of otherwise is that the intent of Part IX is to provide short circuit protection only under the assumption that generally speaking overload conditions are more of a concern on branch circuits and low voltage systems compared to medium voltage systems and thus Code only requires short circuit protection.

Other Codes (e.g. IEEE Red book, Buff book) take the approach that protection from damage is the goal but since these are engineering guides and not Codes with regulatory force, it's just not the same. And either way the way that I've always done this is to look at the damage curves of the conductors and adjust the relay settings to accommodate both the damage curve and coordination, and if I have to choose between damage and coordination, damage takes priority over miscoordination. This issue becomes most prevalent when working with fuses over breakers where quite often the very fast opening time for short circuits causes the fuse to miscoordinate with the breaker. The only other choice would be lack of short circuit protection for the circuit even if it coordinates well, or replacing the fuse with a slower device.

Anyone familiar with this enough to shed some light on it? A very old Mike Holt article that was published in EC&M gives a very good overview of the overcurrent setting rules but only covers low voltage and not medium voltage rules.
 

Haji

Banned
Location
India
Trying to get a handle on how to interpret 1 KV+ NEC requirements for overcurrent protection.

First, 215.3 seems pretty clear when it states, "Feeders shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with the provisions of Part I of Article 240. Where a feeder supplies continuous loads or any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the rating of the overcurrent device shall
not be less than the noncontinuous load plus 125 percent of the continuous load.". That seems pretty cut and dry. But then exception #2 reads, "Feeders over 1000 volts, nominal, shall comply with Part IX of Article 240". So the very first immediate question here is do feeders over 1,000 Volts need to comply with BOTH Part I and Part IX? In other words, is Part I the general rule and Part IX provides modifications to Part I, or do I apply Part IX exclusively and simply ignore Part I?
Part I is the general rule because ohmic heating of over current device in an enclosure by a current is same irrespective whether the current is from LV or MV source.
Second question. Article 240.100(C) requires: "(C) Conductor Protection. The operating time of the protective device, the available short-circuit current, and the conductor used shall be coordinated to prevent damaging or dangerous temperatures in conductors or conductor insulation under short circuit conditions." Yet just above it in 240.101(A) just below it, a fuse continuous rating cannot exceed 300% of the ampacity and the long term trip setting of a breaker cannot exceed 600% of the ampacity.

This latter section is the source of my confusion in general. Because if I use 300% rated fuses or 600% rated breaker relays, then clearly although there is some short circuit protection, there clearly isn't any "overload" protection at all. This is nothing like the "100% of noncontinuous load + 125% of continuous load" rule arising out of Article 215.3 which other than the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) is both very easy to understand seems very logical.

If I read Part IX as a purely prescriptive standard then I can set breakers to 600% of ampacity and fuses to 300% of ampacity. This flies in the face of good engineering sense though. So my best understanding would be that 240.100(C) applies first and foremost, reading from the general to the specific. 240.101(A) is almost extraneous because it is superceded by 240.100(C). My best guess here is that the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) from Part I is not used in Part IX. Instead it's somewhat of an "open ended" or performance based standard. This for instance allows a common practice to use 300% continuous rating E-rated fuses to protect transformers while avoiding inrush which makes them good for short-circuit protection only, and supply overload protection via protection on the secondary side of the transformer. The overload protection is downstream of the conductor being protected.

The only other logical interpretation that I can think of otherwise is that the intent of Part IX is to provide short circuit protection only under the assumption that generally speaking overload conditions are more of a concern on branch circuits and low voltage systems compared to medium voltage systems and thus Code only requires short circuit protection.

Other Codes (e.g. IEEE Red book, Buff book) take the approach that protection from damage is the goal but since these are engineering guides and not Codes with regulatory force, it's just not the same. And either way the way that I've always done this is to look at the damage curves of the conductors and adjust the relay settings to accommodate both the damage curve and coordination, and if I have to choose between damage and coordination, damage takes priority over miscoordination. This issue becomes most prevalent when working with fuses over breakers where quite often the very fast opening time for short circuits causes the fuse to miscoordinate with the breaker. The only other choice would be lack of short circuit protection for the circuit even if it coordinates well, or replacing the fuse with a slower device.

Anyone familiar with this enough to shed some light on it? A very old Mike Holt article that was published in EC&M gives a very good overview of the overcurrent setting rules but only covers low voltage and not medium voltage rules.

MV fuses with time delay or circuit breakers with O/L relay can provide both short circuit and overload protection.
 

Bugman1400

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I think NEC stops at 600V and NESC takes over from there on up. Your approach to favor damage over coordination is correct. If you have a specific question about fuse sizing or an OC relay setting, please say so.
 

mayanees

Senior Member
Location
Westminster, MD
Occupation
Electrical Engineer and Master Electrician
MV cable protection

MV cable protection

Paulengr,
Your explanation and interpretation is consistent with mine. The 300 and 600% limits are trumped by damage protection, and overload protection at medium-voltage is designed into the system. If I provide a 600% ltpu setting on a relay to allow for optimal coordination, I satisfy myself that there is no way that the system could ever be loaded beyond the ampacity of the conductor.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
Trying to get a handle on how to interpret 1 KV+ NEC requirements for overcurrent protection.

First, 215.3 seems pretty clear when it states, "Feeders shall be protected against overcurrent in accordance with the provisions of Part I of Article 240. Where a feeder supplies continuous loads or any combination of continuous and noncontinuous loads, the rating of the overcurrent device shall
not be less than the noncontinuous load plus 125 percent of the continuous load.". That seems pretty cut and dry. But then exception #2 reads, "Feeders over 1000 volts, nominal, shall comply with Part IX of Article 240". So the very first immediate question here is do feeders over 1,000 Volts need to comply with BOTH Part I and Part IX? In other words, is Part I the general rule and Part IX provides modifications to Part I, or do I apply Part IX exclusively and simply ignore Part I?

Second question. Article 240.100(C) requires: "(C) Conductor Protection. The operating time of the protective device, the available short-circuit current, and the conductor used shall be coordinated to prevent damaging or dangerous temperatures in conductors or conductor insulation under short circuit conditions." Yet just above it in 240.101(A) just below it, a fuse continuous rating cannot exceed 300% of the ampacity and the long term trip setting of a breaker cannot exceed 600% of the ampacity.

This latter section is the source of my confusion in general. Because if I use 300% rated fuses or 600% rated breaker relays, then clearly although there is some short circuit protection, there clearly isn't any "overload" protection at all. This is nothing like the "100% of noncontinuous load + 125% of continuous load" rule arising out of Article 215.3 which other than the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) is both very easy to understand seems very logical.

If I read Part IX as a purely prescriptive standard then I can set breakers to 600% of ampacity and fuses to 300% of ampacity. This flies in the face of good engineering sense though. So my best understanding would be that 240.100(C) applies first and foremost, reading from the general to the specific. 240.101(A) is almost extraneous because it is superceded by 240.100(C). My best guess here is that the laundry list of exceptions in 240.4(A) through (G) from Part I is not used in Part IX. Instead it's somewhat of an "open ended" or performance based standard. This for instance allows a common practice to use 300% continuous rating E-rated fuses to protect transformers while avoiding inrush which makes them good for short-circuit protection only, and supply overload protection via protection on the secondary side of the transformer. The overload protection is downstream of the conductor being protected.

The only other logical interpretation that I can think of otherwise is that the intent of Part IX is to provide short circuit protection only under the assumption that generally speaking overload conditions are more of a concern on branch circuits and low voltage systems compared to medium voltage systems and thus Code only requires short circuit protection.

Other Codes (e.g. IEEE Red book, Buff book) take the approach that protection from damage is the goal but since these are engineering guides and not Codes with regulatory force, it's just not the same. And either way the way that I've always done this is to look at the damage curves of the conductors and adjust the relay settings to accommodate both the damage curve and coordination, and if I have to choose between damage and coordination, damage takes priority over miscoordination. This issue becomes most prevalent when working with fuses over breakers where quite often the very fast opening time for short circuits causes the fuse to miscoordinate with the breaker. The only other choice would be lack of short circuit protection for the circuit even if it coordinates well, or replacing the fuse with a slower device.

Anyone familiar with this enough to shed some light on it? A very old Mike Holt article that was published in EC&M gives a very good overview of the overcurrent setting rules but only covers low voltage and not medium voltage rules.

I can see in applications dealing with essential or emergency systems, the philosophy may be different - in that there may be a preference/priority for coordination over equipment damage. You see this quite often with emergency generators.

Wondering if you’ve gotten any more clarity on MV overcurrent requirements?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
It's an interesting question. I guess it boils down to how article 240 is written. I would have to look and see if it is written such that the rules for under a thousand volts are exclusive to under a thousand volts.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
It's an interesting question. I guess it boils down to how article 240 is written. I would have to look and see if it is written such that the rules for under a thousand volts are exclusive to under a thousand volts.

Right. That’s the part that’s unclear to me. Under engineering supervision (which is presumably the case with designing MV circuits) it seems like only having short-circuit protection is adequate so long as one stays away from the damage curve. But as some other members have suggested, overload protection seems like a general rule to all installations…
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
What about overhead conductors?

SM-5 Fuses start at 220-250%, so it is possible to have a downed conductors pull 200% current but never blow the feeder fuse.
 

topgone

Senior Member
What about overhead conductors?

SM-5 Fuses start at 220-250%, so it is possible to have a downed conductors pull 200% current but never blow the feeder fuse.
Most line faults are self-clearing, imho. You don't want to go to remote cutouts to replace busted fuses often, it's taxing ang a waste of resources! The length of the lines determines your fault value and your 250% fusing will only get busted if their is really a bolted fault/ downed line--> if one has chosen the right fuses!
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Most line faults are self-clearing, imho. You don't want to go to remote cutouts to replace busted fuses often, it's taxing ang a waste of resources! The length of the lines determines your fault value and your 250% fusing will only get busted if their is really a bolted fault/ downed line--> if one has chosen the right fuses!

Remote cutouts reduce outages, which by itself helps.


Do most downed lines have a limit on the current drawn due to fault resistance? Particularly tree wire?


1625530690502.png

266.8kcm would in theory be protected with a 400-E fuse. A high impedance fault could load the line to 800 amps without the fuse blowing exceeding the 75*C limit of the conductor covering.
 

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paulengr

Senior Member
I think NEC stops at 600V and NESC takes over from there on up. Your approach to favor damage over coordination is correct. If you have a specific question about fuse sizing or an OC relay setting, please say so.

The issue is that NEC is either ambiguous or contradictory when it comes to MV.

NEC most certainly applies. NEC is a legal requirement in all 50 states. NESC is an engineering standard. When OSHA revised 1910.269 they effectively ignored NESC and even made comments to the effect that they did not accept NESC in the 2015 revision. The difference is that NEC has a specific scope which excludes certain types of equipment/industries such as maritime, utilities, and mining. So anything outside the scope of NEC either has it's own laws and regulations. NEC is often used however even in those areas as an engineering standard in the same way that NESC is.
 

paulengr

Senior Member
What about overhead conductors?

SM-5 Fuses start at 220-250%, so it is possible to have a downed conductors pull 200% current but never blow the feeder fuse.

Suggest you look into distance relaying because that was specifically invented for this exact scenario. Within a fairly short distance 50/51 relaying, let alone fuses, cannot detect faults on overhead lines effectively. Distance relaying relies on changes in impedance and can work at significantly longer distances.

At MV, fuses are almost exclusively used for short circuit protection only. They are considerably expensive to replace, often costing hundreds of dollars each. Almost all protective functions including short circuit (fuse saver) functions are implemented with relays. I would never even consider using fuses for overhead line protection in general. That's just not what it's meant for.
 

paulengr

Senior Member
Right. That’s the part that’s unclear to me. Under engineering supervision (which is presumably the case with designing MV circuits) it seems like only having short-circuit protection is adequate so long as one stays away from the damage curve. But as some other members have suggested, overload protection seems like a general rule to all installations…

There are circumstances where NEC does apply to overhead lines. Not every overhead line installation is a "utility". But it does get into a huge grey area not only within NEC/NESC but even within OSHA. OSHA has three regulations for electrical: 1926 (construction), 1910.269, and Subchapter S. Subchapter S is clearly for "utilization" equipment. 1910.269 applies to "generation, transmission, and distribution". So here is the fundamental question: where does Subchapter S stop and 1910.269 start? OSHA does not specifically define G/T/D but one letter of interpretation makes it clear that cogen facilities fall under 1910.269. So the question is where does one begin and end? Does this mean that Subchapter S only applies to say starters or loads? Is a distribution panel in a residential installation "distribution"? I don't think an MCC is "distribution" but what about switchgear? Does it make a difference whether it is in an industrial plant or a utility substation? Based on the OSHA Letter it certainly doesn't sound like it. There are plenty of plants such as glass plants, paper mills, steel mills, and many others that have extensive distribution and often generation equipment, whether they have overhead lines or not (which is NOT part of OSHA's definition). Similarly NEC doesn't mention overhead lines as part of the scope. In fact it has several sections that deal specifically with overhead lines.
 

xptpcrewx

Power System Engineer
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Occupation
Licensed Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrical Contractor, Certified Master Electrician
There are circumstances where NEC does apply to overhead lines. Not every overhead line installation is a "utility". But it does get into a huge grey area not only within NEC/NESC but even within OSHA. OSHA has three regulations for electrical: 1926 (construction), 1910.269, and Subchapter S. Subchapter S is clearly for "utilization" equipment. 1910.269 applies to "generation, transmission, and distribution". So here is the fundamental question: where does Subchapter S stop and 1910.269 start? OSHA does not specifically define G/T/D but one letter of interpretation makes it clear that cogen facilities fall under 1910.269. So the question is where does one begin and end? Does this mean that Subchapter S only applies to say starters or loads? Is a distribution panel in a residential installation "distribution"? I don't think an MCC is "distribution" but what about switchgear? Does it make a difference whether it is in an industrial plant or a utility substation? Based on the OSHA Letter it certainly doesn't sound like it. There are plenty of plants such as glass plants, paper mills, steel mills, and many others that have extensive distribution and often generation equipment, whether they have overhead lines or not (which is NOT part of OSHA's definition). Similarly NEC doesn't mention overhead lines as part of the scope. In fact it has several sections that deal specifically with overhead lines.

OSHA and NESC aside, there are many applications where MV is present on the premises wiring system (where NEC applies). Can you provide clarification as it pertains to the NEC only?

Note: in some respects, OSHA and NESC may have similar if not identical requirements as the NEC, but because of their intent, will interpret the requirements differently (in their own right). I am merely asking from an installation perspective because the requirement to provide overload protection on MV systems in the NEC is not clear and as you’ve mentioned sometimes contradictory. Applying the most stringent requirement would seem to suggest that overload protection is required.
 

paulengr

Senior Member
Remote cutouts reduce outages, which by itself helps.


Do most downed lines have a limit on the current drawn due to fault resistance? Particularly tree wire?


View attachment 2557050

266.8kcm would in theory be protected with a 400-E fuse. A high impedance fault could load the line to 800 amps without the fuse blowing exceeding the 75*C limit of the conductor covering.

Impedance through Earth (a 2D conductor) is proportional to the inverse of the distance. This is pretty counter intuitive. See IEEE Green book. But it's the 1D impedance of the line that drastically and quickly makes detection and clearing line faults with fuses difficult except over short distances.

Most overhead line faults are "self repairing" but not "self clearing". A fault is usually initiated by vegetation, wildlife, or weather. The air is heated to the point where the critical flashover voltage drops well below the nominal line voltage so arcing becomes self sustaining. Once power is removed since there is really nothing there (or it has been destroyed) to continue a fault, unlike a downed line, the majority of the time power can be restored immediately with no repairs required. After the first attempt a few faults can be recovered even on the second or third attempt. Thus utilities frequently use reclosers for this purpose. This is a special circuit breaker that is intended to attempt to close into a fault. After the first couple attempts some utilities set up the reclosers in a "fuse blowing" mode...it purposely rides through a fault long enough to attempt to clear the fault via fuses located on the power line after the first couple cycles attempt to clear a fault without triggering fuses. After that point if the fault does not clear the recloser opens a final time and locks out until it is manually reset. Most people have "experienced" the effect of a recloser during storms. If you have ever seen power "blink" on and off, you have seen the effect of utility reclosers in operation.
 

paulengr

Senior Member
OSHA and NESC aside, there are many applications where MV is present on the premises wiring system (where NEC applies). Can you provide clarification as it pertains to the NEC only?

Note: in some respects, OSHA and NESC may have similar if not identical requirements as the NEC, but because of their intent, will interpret the requirements differently (in their own right). I am merely asking from an installation perspective because the requirement to provide overload protection on MV systems in the NEC is not clear and as you’ve mentioned sometimes contradictory. Applying the most stringent requirement would seem to suggest that overload protection is required.

Sure, many examples. Not saying this is the best way to do it but U.S. Pipe's Lynchburg, VA facility was maintained at one point by an ex-utility guy. In a plant expansion facing the difficulty of running a lot of distribution through an existing plant in a foundry environment, he elected to think a little outside the box. He installed what amounts to a "platform" arrangement for the transformers and then ran overhead lines to masts located in the areas they needed power (a total of 3 or 4 areas) fed from a new utility feed (also via an overhead line). It is a pretty clever design to deal with congestion issues. The plant itself is not a "utility" and so it clearly falls under NEC despite the fact that this is effectively a private (though short) utility.

Many conveyor systems often have extremely long distribution systems and at some point, running conduit over thousands of feet doesn't make sense so a lot of them have overhead lines.

And then we have the one that I have the most knowledge and personal experience with, Nutrien's phosphate mining operation in North Carolina. Incoming power is via two 230 kV lines fed from a Duke ring bus substation. Load is 90 MW. They have an on site 50+ MW cogen. There are over a dozen chemical plants, a port, an air strip, and a large mining operation. There is over 70 miles of 23 kV power lines. Some of it obviously falls outside NEC and in those areas such as the mine NEC or NESC are merely engineering standards but the chemical plant areas are clearly NEC, whether or not OSHA or others define things differently in terms of work rules. This one is particularly tricky because the facility spans so many different jurisdictions (FAA, maritime, MSHA, NEC, NESC).

Outside of these examples of extensive use of overhead conductors, medium voltage is very prevalent in many industries. Glass plants, steel mills, compressed gas plants, paper mills, wood chip mills, to name a few. Even a few of the larger sewage and water plants are medium voltage. Tire plants use it extensively in their mixing areas on what they call Banberry machines. Gas and oil pipelines use it on their pumps and compressors. I'd comment on refineries but there aren't a lot of those around here. Even Smithfields and Butterball use it extensively for operating their large chiller plants in their meat packing plants. Larger feed mills use it on their hammer mills. My current job is a field service engineer for a large regional motor shop. Most of the medium voltage plants are customers. I work with medium voltage equipment at least weekly. In addition to starters and motors such as these examples you see it even in plant distribution systems. It is pretty common to see larger plants with say a 12,470 service from the utility that is distributed throughout the plant and then transformed down to 480 before it hits distribution panels to service individual equipment. There are lots of advantages of this over one or two large transformers going to 480 and then distributing thousands of amps via bus duct.
 
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