Overloaded neutral bars

[hbiss]

I don't get many Square D panels around here, but I got one today that I have to add a couple of circuits to. Shame on Square D for making a 30 circuit panel with only 30 neutral spaces. This one is loaded and with Romex. Whoever did the install did a nice neat job except for putting two and three conductors (neutrals and grounds) in each neutral bar hole. Every space is used. So, my question is (and I should know this), can I take maybe six #14 grounds off and pigtail them to a single piece of #14 and land that on a neutral bar? Probably even better if I installed a new ground bar to the can someplace like was supposed to be done in the first place.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

So, my question is (and I should know this), can I take maybe six #14 grounds off and pigtail them to a single piece of #14 and land that on a neutral bar?

Absolutely, yes. All the 14s with one 14, all the 12s and 14s with one 12, etc.

You could do that with every EGC in the panel with one wire large enough.

 

[ptonsparky]

Did it once with all the EGs. Split bolt with one #10 to the neutral bar. Didn't know better back then and had I asked for an EG bar, it would have been special order along with WTH is that.

 

[Fred B]

Best option would be add a ground bar.
Question I have is, How far back in the code did they allow the N and G to be under a single termination in the main panel? See it a lot in older 70 and 80's installations. The better ones would actually have the associated N/G combined, but do come across ones with non-associated N/G under a single termination.

 

[electrofelon]

Yup I do it all the time. Even in new installs where you have enough spaces, just keeps things neater to strategically pigtail 4-5 EGCs together and land the pigtail in the ground bar.

 

[Electromatic]

My favorite is old, full panels with stacked neutral bars. You go to add a circuit and can just make out an unused terminal...in the back bar!

 

[infinity]

Best option would be add a ground bar.
Question I have is, How far back in the code did they allow the N and G to be under a single termination in the main panel? See it a lot in older 70 and 80's installations. The better ones would actually have the associated N/G combined, but do come across ones with non-associated N/G under a single termination.

These problems began when we started using NM cables with a wire type EGC. Prior to that it was AC or even metal raceways so there was no need to have more termination holes than circuits. It took manufacturers quite a while to get on board with adding more termination holes on the neutral bar. Back in the days of the rapid expansion of using more and more NM cable you simply had no choice but to double up terminations.

 

[jim dungar]

Question I have is, How far back in the code did they allow the N and G to be under a single termination in the main panel? See it a lot in older 70 and 80's installations.

It has never been allowed by manufacturers and per UL Listing.
Because too many contractors, and inspectors, were ignoring this under 110.3, a specific separate prohibition was added to the code.

 

[Elect117]

If they are equipment grounds you could also install another egc terminal bar.

 

[CoolWill]

I see the neutral and ground of a circuit under the same screw in old panels. It makes it look neat, but was never allowed by the manufacturers, even if the code didn't specifically prohibit it until... 2002?

You can put multiple grounds under one screw, but not neutrals.