Owner wants cad files

[Designer69]

When I do a job I only send pdf's and hard copies never the native cad files.

This owner's architect is asking for the cad files to do some "conflict checking" which is strange bc this is only 2D and not BIM.

Would you guys send the cad files or just say no? I wouldn't want them having easy access to proprietary design documents.


Thanks

 

[jaggedben]

I would just say no.

At most I would copy/paste drawing work that was particular to their job into a separate file, and explode all proprietary blocs, etc., and give them that.

 

[ron]

It is so easy to transfer PDF's to CAD, it is not worth the bad blood. We just send the CAD files.

We remove functionality from our proprietary blocks and remove borders, but it is become common courtesy for us.

We do the same for Vendors that want them for shop drawings.

 

[ggunn]

When I do a job I only send pdf's and hard copies never the native cad files.

This owner's architect is asking for the cad files to do some "conflict checking" which is strange bc this is only 2D and not BIM.

Would you guys send the cad files or just say no? I wouldn't want them having easy access to proprietary design documents.


Thanks

Just say no. He can import the pdf's into his CAD program and do all the "conflict checking" he wants.

 

[drktmplr12]

read your contract. you may have agreed to furnish native files and not realized it. many muni's out here require native files before closing out the project.

 

[Jraef]

We ask for an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) before we send them. That way if they want to use them in any way other than the original stated intent, they have to ask your permission. You can download free templates from LegalZoom and places like that.

 

[gadfly56]

read your contract. you may have agreed to furnish native files and not realized it. many muni's out here require native files before closing out the project.

Very important! Typically at the end of a project, MEP firms will turn over the CAD drawings or BIM's. Actually, if you don't turn over the BIM, you would have been better off using CAD, at least for smaller projects.

 

[mivey]

I would just say no.

At most I would copy/paste drawing work that was particular to their job into a separate file, and explode all proprietary blocs, etc., and give them that.

Explode, rasterize, and flatten to one layer. Becomes essentially a digitized scan and you can control the resolution.

Still need contract language to keep them from copy/pasting your designs, rasterized or not.

Add: You should pay more for re-usable CAD files.

 

[drktmplr12]

At the end of the day the native files fall under copyright law. The only reason anyone would needs native files is to make changes or derivative works.

The consulting engineering industry in South Florida is fairly collaborative from the perspective of a subconsultant who plugs into many of the larger firms. We have alot of model files for the plants out here and we value them much.

We depend on the owner to furnish us with recent surveys and site plans. As engineers we take responsibility for 100% of what's on our signed and sealed drawing, regardless of where the model files came from from. Without them we are tracing underlaid PDFs, far from ideal.

In private sector often the models are living documents and highly sensitive. Similar to how BIM is being used as an O&M tool.

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[gadfly56]

At the end of the day the native files fall under copyright law. The only reason anyone would needs native files is to make changes or derivative works.

The consulting engineering industry in South Florida is fairly collaborative from the perspective of a subconsultant who plugs into many of the larger firms. We have alot of model files for the plants out here and we value them much.

We depend on the owner to furnish us with recent surveys and site plans. As engineers we take responsibility for 100% of what's on our signed and sealed drawing, regardless of where the model files came from from. Without them we are tracing underlaid PDFs, far from ideal.

In private sector often the models are living documents and highly sensitive. Similar to how BIM is being used as an O&M tool.

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That of course was the whole point behind BIM. It makes the issue of intellectual property a bit ticklish, especially if you are using families created by the vendors who are providing equipment for the project.

 

[Ingenieur]

did he hire you?
did you personally seal them?
do you 'own' them or does your employer?

you can give it to them with terms limiting their use

I'm not sure what is proprietay on bldg drawings (it's all been done before) or it's use value in applying it to other bldgs, they are fairly unique

and if they really want them the will scan and convert
or just have a cadd guy redraw them

we always gave to coordinate light fixtures vs hvac grills, etc
they may want to move a few lights to better serve work areas
I don't see anything nefarious

 

[Fulthrotl]

Explode, rasterize, and flatten to one layer. Becomes essentially a digitized scan and you can control the resolution.

Still need contract language to keep them from copy/pasting your designs, rasterized or not.

Add: You should pay more for re-usable CAD files.

the only reason i'd need someone's cad files is if i wanted to make a layer on top for as builts.
it would also give me exact dimensions quickly for laying out slabs for deck perforations.

if it's flattened to one layer, then any conflicting data in suppressed layers can't be used inadvertently.
i'd rather have it like that anyway. i can make a layer on top, erase the stuff i don't need, and do my
layouts.

 

[petersonra]

He probably wants them so that is things change over time he can update the files and have up-to-date drawings. That's not an unreasonable approach in my opinion but it probably should have been dealt with that the contract stage rather than at the tail end of the job. We always Supply CAD files and program source code. It makes it a whole lot easier for the customer to maintain the equipment and keep the drawings and programs up-to-date. A lot of suppliers don't do it because it forces the customer to come back to them if they want to make changes or at least they think it does. Personally I think that's a scummy thing to do to a customer.

 

[retirede]

If providing the files is not in the original contract, you can either say ‘no’ or quote them a price.

If it’s a good customer that you want to retain a good relationship with, you might just give in and provide.

 

[mivey]

He probably wants them so that is things change over time he can update the files and have up-to-date drawings. That's not an unreasonable approach in my opinion but it probably should have been dealt with that the contract stage rather than at the tail end of the job. We always Supply CAD files and program source code. It makes it a whole lot easier for the customer to maintain the equipment and keep the drawings and programs up-to-date. A lot of suppliers don't do it because it forces the customer to come back to them if they want to make changes or at least they think it does. Personally I think that's a scummy thing to do to a customer.

Depends what I ask for. If I want a design to modify and re-use elsewhere then that is what I buy. I don't own the design unless that is what I buy.

When I buy a software program I don't own the source code unless I buy that as well.

Many are under the mistaken impression that if they hire an engineer to design and build a substation then they own the station design and can take the final drawings and re-use them for a different substation. It is not so.

 

[Strathead]

In this day and age, if I was having a house designed and built I would require the CAD as part of my contract. As others have stated, I don't need blocks or title block. This would give the designer the decision up front whether to mark it up and how much. Most of the time commercial drawings are incomplete especially in regards to fire alarm, sprinklers, energy management, security, data/comm, etc. CAD is pretty much necessary today to complete these systems. Regarding the proprietary issue, I have worked in three different markets in my career. In each market it is amazing how similar the layout and wording of the plans are from different firms in the same market and then completely different in the other markets. I suspect without proof that it is because they all cannibalize each other and always have.

 

[kingpb]

Give them files without title blocks; i.e. no name or company affiliation just dumb Cad files.

 

[gadfly56]

In this day and age, if I was having a house designed and built I would require the CAD as part of my contract. As others have stated, I don't need blocks or title block. This would give the designer the decision up front whether to mark it up and how much. Most of the time commercial drawings are incomplete especially in regards to fire alarm, sprinklers, energy management, security, data/comm, etc. CAD is pretty much necessary today to complete these systems. Regarding the proprietary issue, I have worked in three different markets in my career. In each market it is amazing how similar the layout and wording of the plans are from different firms in the same market and then completely different in the other markets. I suspect without proof that it is because they all cannibalize each other and always have.

I know we only steal the best stuff we find.

 

[Ingenieur]

copying imo is not a major issue
they want the seal as much as the dwg
and a contract to share liabilty

I've done cookie cutter work
public housing
pump stations
etc

I work out a deal up front
billable time to review and seal (it is my design)
a % of construction cost
best work I ever had lol

if someone copies your work chances are you will never know
and elec dwgs are easy to redraw
reputable firms will not do it

the key is work with people you can trust

 

[GoldDigger]

If you include an electronic version of the seal (is that acceptable anywhere??), you would need to lock the file so that the seal could not be taken to apply to an edited version of the CAD file.
If only wet ink or embossed seal on paper is recognized, then locking the CAD file is not as critical.

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