P&S device failure rate

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brantmacga

brantmacga

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I've always been a leviton guy, but sometimes i stray. like recently when i let a guy at the supply house sell me a bunch of p&s stuff ($$$). I remember using it about two years ago w/ another company and we had a 20% failure rate on the 3 way residential grade switches. they told us no other electricians were experiencing any problems. so anyway, i bought them a couple of weeks ago. now that i've got power on, i'm having a 10% failure rate w/ these switches. anyone else having problems?
 
Not trying to give you a hard time but that seems incredibly high.

10 out of every 100 three way switches are breaking?

I have never had devices fail at that rate.
 
it is bizarre. but the last time i used them was two years ago and i like i said, 20% of the 3 ways were bad. now its 10%. i wouldn't think that they're still selling shipments from two years ago. is there something that I could be doing that breaks them or burns the contacts on them? i've never had this problem w/ leviton stuff.
 
brantmacga said:
no, don't use a screw gun. the only thing i can come up w/ is the ones i've bought are crap.
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How are they failing, exactly? Did you drill the rivets out of any of them and look?

I've only used P&S devices, unless something else was specc'd, for more than 10 years. I've had maybe 20 switch failures, ever. I've had a good many failed GFCI's (maybe 1 out of 100), but I think that's pretty much par for the course for many GFCI brands.
 
no i haven't opened it, but i was just thinking about that a few minutes ago. i shall do it tomorrow. they fail by simply not working, ever, out of the box. i'm sure it just a bent contact not making a connection, but i can't understand why i have so many that do it. i won't buy them anymore so its not a huge concern; i was just curious if i was the only one.
 
Weird. Mistakes do happen on the manufacturing line, but that seems awfully high.

I had a bad batch of Leviton 3-ways once, and I swore off Leviton stuff. But it's the dominant brand around here so I'm kind of stuck with it.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Are you using a screw gun to tighten the screws?
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I think what he means here is are you using the device screws to push the device into the box, causing the wires behind to be pushed back by the device itself? I've seen a lot of broken devices caused by using the device to push the wires back into the box, especially if the make-up is done sloppily. Wire nuts left sticking out toward the front of the box can cause a device to just stop well before it's flush with the wall.
 
480sparky said:
I think what he means here is are you using the device screws to push the device into the box, causing the wires behind to be pushed back by the device itself? I've seen a lot of broken devices caused by using the device to push the wires back into the box, especially if the make-up is done sloppily. Wire nuts left sticking out toward the front of the box can cause a device to just stop well before it's flush with the wall.
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I agree with you, but I was suggesting he was over tightening the screws...
 
Myself, I find the opposite to be true. I get a lot of Leviton switch failures. With 4 way decora switches I would say the Leviton failure rate is about 60 % within a year. As for single pole switches toggle style, I have noticed it goes in spree's. Go a year and no problems. Then have 3 or 4 fail after a month or two of use on a single house, and get egg all over your face.
 
I have not had a switch or duplex receptacles fail on me from P&S in 10+ years. I have had a couple of GFI's where the screw would not tighten down on the wire correctly.
 
We generally use Cooper devices but here a while back I bought a bunch of Leviton receptacles and those thing would just fall apart. Not all of them, of course but enough to make me swear off Leviton plugs.

Used tons of P&S with another company and had good luck.
 
Maybe what you got was made on Friday at 4:55 when the factory shift was more interested in playing Paycheck Poker and planning the Quaffing Contest down at O'Malleys.
Sometimes, something in the factory will get by the QC people. They may not catch it quick enough to prevent any defective items from going out, so we end up with that stuff on the job, cussing the maker and swearing to change brands.
I think it's important to remember here is that no matter what brand we are using, it's pretty much all mass-produced. No manufacturer can afford to have each and every device thoroughly, 100% tested. If you told me no human hands touch a product from the time the parts arrive at the factory to the time it's placed on a warehouse shelf, I would believe it. So there's bound to be bad stuff out there. How many times have you spent all day installing fixtures, and expect to find a few bad bulbs?
 
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you see, a lot of you have these problems w/ leviton where as i've had none. and you have no problems w/ p&s and i have many. maybe its one of those weird unexplainables. or maybe a leviton rep was in the warehouse and sabotoged the merch. either way, i'm back to leviton. as far as falling apart, i've had that happen w/ p&s decora stuff. switches do it the worst. and speaking of cheap devices, have any of you seen those "cheetah speed systems" devices? i went into a supply house i rarely visit today and saw it for the first time. isn't that what they put in mobile homes? i'm sure its fast, but it looks sssssoooooo cheap! also, i've yet to take any of those three-ways apart but should get to it by the end of the week. maybe that will explain something. i was thinking maybe i didn't stab my wires far enough into the device, but i'm checking voltages on screw terminals so that wouldn't make any difference. i'll update when i get the things open.
 
What is up with all this brand loyalty?

There is little difference between Hubbell, Leviton and P&S, the big question is who has the right price.

Seriously, don’t y’all take quotes on this stuff?
 
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