Paddle Fan Switch Location Rules?

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tw1156 said:
Texas does not require Vacancy/Occupancy sensors for Residential single dwelling.

Edit: Depending on where you're located though, Texas has adopted the 2017 NEC.

Under the 2017 NEC 422.31 (Disconnection of Permanently Connected Appliances):

(A): Rated at Not over 300 VA or 1/8 HP: For permanently connected appliances rated at not over 300VA or 1/8HP, the branch circuit overcurrent device shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is lockable in accordance with 110.25.

The bold section is new, and if you agree that a paddle-fan is an appliance, and you cannot see the switch as it's on the other side of the wall, you may have a leg to stand on.
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Doesn't the paddle fan have an integral on/off switch?
 
hbiss said:
I believe the OP is referring to a Decora style switch that controls the exhaust fan.

-Hal
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Makes sense. Still nothing prohibiting putting that switch in the garage if that is where you want it.

Those type fans are typically under 300 VA or 1/8 Hp and don't require a disconnect within sight either.
 
infinity said:
Doesn't the paddle fan have an integral on/off switch?
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Even if it does, I do not believe an integral switch can serve as a disconnect the purpose of which is to de-energize the equipment in its entirety. A similar situation is a panelboard MCB doesn't de-energize a panelboard in its entirety for safe work on or within the panelboard.
 
Smart $ said:
Even if it does, I do not believe an integral switch can serve as a disconnect the purpose of which is to de-energize the equipment in its entirety. A similar situation is a panelboard MCB doesn't de-energize a panelboard in its entirety for safe work on or within the panelboard.
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Typical "paddle fan" is below 1/8 hp/300 VA and doesn't require such switch to be on or within sight of the fan. The switch that is common on most of them is a pull chain switch and does not indicate if it is on or off either.
 
Smart $ said:
A similar situation is a panelboard MCB doesn't de-energize a panelboard in its entirety for safe work on or within the panelboard.
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But what does that have to do with the NEC general requirement for a disconnecting means?
 
infinity said:
But what does that have to do with the NEC general requirement for a disconnecting means?
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Energized conductors are still within the equipment enclosure after the switch is flipped to the off position. Thus, the equipment is not disconnected completely. Work within the enclosure or to the enclosure itself could expose the worker to energized, possibly even uninsulated parts.

...same as an MCB with respect to an otherwise energized panelboard.
 
Smart $ said:
Energized conductors are still within the equipment enclosure after the switch is flipped to the off position. Thus, the equipment is not disconnected completely. Work within the enclosure or to the enclosure itself could expose the worker to energized, possibly even uninsulated parts.

...same as an MCB with respect to an otherwise energized panelboard.
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If I go to change a blown fuse in a disconnect switch the conductors on the line side are still energized, where in the NEC does it say that an entire piece of equipment must be dead?
 
infinity said:
If I go to change a blown fuse in a disconnect switch the conductors on the line side are still energized, where in the NEC does it say that an entire piece of equipment must be dead?
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I am with you on this - NEC is silent about that. Safety policy may or may not like the line side still energized if you are going to have the enclosure opened.
 
infinity said:
If I go to change a blown fuse in a disconnect switch the conductors on the line side are still energized, where in the NEC does it say that an entire piece of equipment must be dead?
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We're getting into maintenance issues which aren't really covered by the NEC, but you are talking about the disconnect itself, not the equipment it is disconnecting. The fuses are an integral part of the disconnect, not the equipment being affected by the disconnect. All the same, as long as you have the disconnect's cover open while it's line side is energized, you have to don the proper PPE for energized work.
 
In some instances "unit switches" are permitted to be the code required disconnecting means. In those cases there is still voltage within the appliance even though you have opened the switch.
 
kwired said:
In some instances "unit switches" are permitted to be the code required disconnecting means. In those cases there is still voltage within the appliance even though you have opened the switch.
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Yes, through 422.31 Exception which requires compliance with 422.34. As you said earlier, this would require a marked off position.
 
Smart $ said:
We're getting into maintenance issues which aren't really covered by the NEC, but you are talking about the disconnect itself, not the equipment it is disconnecting. The fuses are an integral part of the disconnect, not the equipment being affected by the disconnect. All the same, as long as you have the disconnect's cover open while it's line side is energized, you have to don the proper PPE for energized work.
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I agree with you but we're talking about two different things, you're mentioning live work and PPE. I stated that for an NEC required disconnecting means the entire piece of equipment does not need to be de-energized, as Kwired mentioned an integral unit switch would satisfy the NEC disconnecting means requirement.
 
infinity said:
I agree with you but we're talking about two different things, you're mentioning live work and PPE. I stated that for an NEC required disconnecting means the entire piece of equipment does not need to be de-energized, as Kwired mentioned an integral unit switch would satisfy the NEC disconnecting means requirement.
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And also as mentioned, the unit switch must have a marked off position. I've never seen or heard of a paddle fan that does.
 
Smart $ said:
And also as mentioned, the unit switch must have a marked off position. I've never seen or heard of a paddle fan that does.
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But at same time nearly all paddle fans fall into that less then 300 VA or 1/8 hp that don't require a disconnect at the motor/appliance location.
 
kwired said:
But at same time nearly all paddle fans fall into that less then 300 VA or 1/8 hp that don't require a disconnect at the motor/appliance location.
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Ultimately, provided the fan is not more than 1/8HP, which is likely the case, no switch is even required let alone where one would have to be located.
 
Smart $ said:
Ultimately, provided the fan is not more than 1/8HP, which is likely the case, no switch is even required let alone where one would have to be located.
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I've been trying to say that since post 14.:hug:(nobody ever uses the hug emoji)
 
Since the OP seems to be "MIA" I'm going out on a limb and saying it's not a "paddle" or ceiling fan. Since he said "like what you see in most bathrooms" I'm going with bath exhaust fan. I think he meant for the term "paddle" to go with "switch". I may have seen one ceiling/paddle fan in a bathroom but it's certainly not common.

Either way, the switch isn't required to be in the same room.
 
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