Pancake Boxes

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sparkyallday

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In our area I Have one inspector that will fail your inspections if you put more than one wire in a pancake box. He says that the only way that you could put multiple wires in this application is if there was a cubic inch rating stamped on the fixture canopy. Any code classes that I have taken never ever mentioned this. Has anyone else ever had this problem? If so is there a code reference to help me out?

Andrew Kist
Asheville Nc.
 
Many times I have used mutliple wires in a pancake box and passed, but at 3.9 cu. in. I think your inspector is right.
 
77401 said:
HAve you tried these?
20.0 Cubic in box pancake
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I have, and they are the"bomb". Trouble with those is they don't work so good on single wall construction, which I assume that most of you don't have a clue as to what that is, but it is about 50 per cent of the houses in Hawaii. Most of you guy's would throw a s-fit if you saw the wiring methods employed for those.
 
Standard pancake boxes are stamped 6.0 cu. in..

14 Awg from Table 314.16(B) is 2.0 cu. in..

Blk, white, EG
3 x 2 = 6.0 cubic inches

Canopies are required to be marked... do you think most manufacturers will mark their canopies?... no.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Standard pancake boxes are stamped 6.0 cu. in..

14 Awg from Table 314.16(B) is 2.0 cu. in..

Blk, white, EG
3 x 2 = 6.0 cubic inches

Canopies are required to be marked... do you think most manufacturers will mark their canopies?... no.
Click to expand...

I even went as far as to search a fan companies web site in hopes of finding the cu. inches for one of thier canopies, Found nothing.
 
macmikeman said:
...Trouble with those is they don't work so good on single wall construction, which I assume that most of you don't have a clue as to what that is, but it is about 50 per cent of the houses in Hawaii....
Click to expand...

I've seen photos, apparently most of the older house in Hawaii were built that way. What I recall was a wall of 1x boards battened in place around the edges.

I'd love to see some pics of how you deal with the wiring. I assume everything's exposed and surface mounted, but I'm guessing from your comment that it's not always done in conduit or wiremold... :)
 
I'll probably get hammered for saying this but.... I often use 6 cubic inch pancake boxes for light fixtures. If the fixture has a decent sized canopy (1/2" x 4") and the light fixture is centered on a stud (on plaster or sheetrock walls). I cut a round hole in the rock and mount the box directly to the stud. If I'm installing on a wood wall, I do the same thing and will also cut a pattern of the canopy from sheetmetal, cut a round hole in the sheetmetal (4"?) on center of the light fixture and attach it to the wall to cover any exposed wood between the inside of the canopy and the outside of the box.
It may not meet the letter of the code, but (IMHO) it meets the intent.
If I'm using #12 wire, I have to include the canopy volume to do it this way.
It would be better if the fixture manufacturer would list the volume of the canopy, but that's not (always) the case.
steve
 
georgestolz said:
That's why we carry sharpies. ;)
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George
I thought the minimum requirement to be able to carry a sharpie was being a sharpie...;)

Modifying the code to work for one's own use is not what is suppose to occur. Modifying one's work habits to make the code work is what I was taught.
Instead of a pancake box for installations of larger size conductors and multiple cables in the box, why not use a larger box??? I was a contractor and installer for years, and in the planning stage is when we figured this kind of stuff out.
 
Pierre, I imagine I fell victim to a little laziness on this myself, and caved in to what "everybody else was doing."

The boxes I used were 3.5 cu in, made by Allied, and not even listed. How could they be, they weren't big enough for one 14-2 NM cable? A rule of thumb was created for these boxes: "Limit: One Cable." Even though most folks could add and determine that the NEC's limit on the boxes was less than a cable.

This is when rationalization (good or bad) comes into play: we (lazy) installers know there is volume in the canopy, even though the manufacturer of the light doesn't mention it. We make ourselves feel better by rationalizing.

It's a troubling avenue to walk, but I've been down it a time or two.
 
George
I was never a fan of pancake boxes and single gem boxes in my day. I know they are good for certain installations and help some to be more competitive in pricing work.
One of the reasons for installing a pancake is the beam is in the way of the exact location of a pendant light. I understand that. In the layout, sometimes we were able to get the carpenter to reframe an area.
 
Isnt the fixture supposed to be just listed as being able to be used as a wireway for wires like white enameled flourecent fixtures are? If that were the case then tell the inspector its for a specific listed fixture. It wouldnt matter how many wires ya put in a pan box if they were in a listed fixture.
 
As Pierre said the simple solution is to use a box with 6.0 cu in and one 14/2 NM cable. The 1/2" x 4" round pancake boxes that we have used are stamped 6.0 cu in. Problem solved.

If you must use #12 conductors than you can use 2 wire AC cable. Second problem solved.
 
IMHO this is a case where common sense and good workmanship are helpfull. We avoid pancake boxes but when we need to use them it's one cable per outlet. With some of the new engineered wall panels (Simpson Strongwalls) you cannot always make holes as big as you'd like or where you'd like. We get alot of co-operation from the inspectors when they know we're doing our best to comply.
 
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