Panel change mysteries - What do you do?

[Coppersmith]

When I do a panel change I am very careful to put things back the way I found them unless there is an obvious violation like #14 on a 20 amp breaker (which I will change to a 15 amp breaker). Sometimes there are mysterious things that concern me and I'm not sure the proper course of action.

In a recent panel change there was a three conductor NM (no ground) where both the white and red were landed on the neutral bar. I left the red unconnected while testing the system and didn't find anything in the house not working. Odds are something is actually not working and I missed it and will get a call to come repair it later.

This job was at the far reaches of my service area and it would be a pain to go back there. I thought about recoding the red wire with white tape and landing it but my concern kept me from doing so. Was it a replacement for a failed neutral? Was it now a ground wire? Apparently a former MWBC was reconfigured.

How would you have handled this situation?

 

[K8MHZ]

When I do a panel change I am very careful to put things back the way I found them unless there is an obvious violation like #14 on a 20 amp breaker (which I will change to a 15 amp breaker). Sometimes there are mysterious things that concern me and I'm not sure the proper course of action.

In a recent panel change there was a three conductor NM (no ground) where both the white and red were landed on the neutral bar. I left the red unconnected while testing the system and didn't find anything in the house not working. Odds are something is actually not working and I missed it and will get a call to come repair it later.

This job was at the far reaches of my service area and it would be a pain to go back there. I thought about recoding the red wire with white tape and landing it but my concern kept me from doing so. Was it a replacement for a failed neutral? Was it now a ground wire? Apparently a former MWBC was reconfigured.

How would you have handled this situation?

You may have disconnected an EGC. I would have tried to tone out the circuit and looked for the other end to see what the conductors were actually used for, then put the proper color tape on both ends and hooked the conductors back up.

 

[infinity]

I agree probably an EGC. If you're labeling the panel directory as required by the NEC you should already know where that circuit goes.

 

[crispysonofa]

Generally, I would put things back the way I found them, unless as you state there is an obvious/unsafe violation as incorrect overcurrent protection. I will usually take the time to turn breakers off and see what that circuit controls either by myself or with a helper. The red wire landed on the neutral bar may have granted a little more investigation as to what the circuits purpose was and what the knucklehead that landed that wire on the bar was thinking? If you bid the job don't be afraid to ask for a little more if you spend extra time, in my experience people are happy to know you did a thorough job and came in a little bit higher than to have questions at the end. The vast majority of the population's understanding of electricity is minimal at best and they want to feel safe knowing that all the organized lightning is staying where it's supposed to. Just my 2c.

 

[MAC702]

You may have disconnected an EGC...

My first thought as well.

 

[mbrooke]

You may have disconnected an EGC. I would have tried to tone out the circuit and looked for the other end to see what the conductors were actually used for, then put the proper color tape on both ends and hooked the conductors back up.

What I was going to say before I read your post. :happyyes::happyyes:

 

[Little Bill]

I would have either toned it out or removed the white wire to see what quit working. It was mentioned that disconnecting the red didn't cause anything to stop working so moving to the white would probably kill whatever it was connected to.
I'm with the rest, the red was probably being used as an EGC.

 

[mbrooke]

I would have either toned it out or removed the white wire to see what quit working. It was mentioned that disconnecting the red didn't cause anything to stop working so moving to the white would probably kill whatever it was connected to.
I'm with the rest, the red was probably being used as an EGC.

I know the OP mentioned no EGC, but even if there was that chance is still pretty high:

Every Joe homeowner site advocates it one way or another so a DIY special is a given.

 

[kwired]

I know the OP mentioned no EGC, but even if there was that chance is still pretty high:

Every Joe homeowner site advocates it one way or another so a DIY special is a given.

I don't know which is more isolated, the red or the green, my gut says the green in that case.:blink:

 

[infinity]

I know the OP mentioned no EGC, but even if there was that chance is still pretty high:

Every Joe homeowner site advocates it one way or another so a DIY special is a given.

If you run a branch circuit from your house service using NM cable with a plastic box you already have an "IG".

 

[MAC702]

If you run a branch circuit from your house service using NM cable with a plastic box you already have an "IG".

Practically speaking, but only if it's a dedicated branch circuit.

Where one is required, though, probably couldn't get away with a bare copper as the IG. It wouldn't surely be in contact with a few other grounds prior to landing on the terminal bar in the panel, though I doubt that would matter significantly. And if it needs insulated, the NM jacket wouldn't count, even though we know it would probably do the job.

 

[mbrooke]

I don't know which is more isolated, the red or the green, my gut says the green in that case.:blink:

Red, because it has insulation. It keeps the electrons piped in

If you run a branch circuit from your house service using NM cable with a plastic box you already have an "IG".

Thats not what the DIY forums say. Don't you get it, the red outlet makes you and your computer feel special