208/3, 4000A existing switchboard stayed inside mechanical room, room has only one door far away from the swbd, there is air handler unit located within 4 feet in front of swbd. The client want to replace this existing swbd with new one at the same spot, how can we meet the code for swbd clearance? The existing air handler unit will stay.
panel clearance per NEC
- Thread starter anbm
- Start date
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
So what is the issue the single door or the air handler?
Thought per code, for this size of swbd, we need either double clearance in front of swbd or one door from each end of it? The issue is second door cannot be added neither double clearance is met. The room is tight.
MyCleveland
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
If was legal when installed...no change should be needed. As long as you can fit the NEW equipment in the EXACT same footprint or smaller than what exists, it should be considered maintenance.
Not knowing the rules in your location, I would have a meeting with the AHJ and get through this in advance of ordering ANYTHING. Be sure an owner rep attends the meeting with you.
Agree, only AHJ can bless this, I doubt it.
MyCleveland
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Do not give up. If the AHJ denies your request, there must be an appeal process of some type. The business owner must be allowed to maintain his property.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
How wide is the switchboard? A lot of people misinterpret 110.26(C)(2) to just apply to 1200A and over, but what it actually says is "... 1200 amperes or more and over 1.8 m (6 ft) wide...".
So if the existing switchboard has only a few breakers and is say, 48" wide, that's fine for a single access room. But if the new one is going to be 2 sections like that, or has a large Main in it's own 38in. wide section, then it will be over 6ft. wide and over 1200A, so they will need two exits.
So if the existing switchboard has only a few breakers and is say, 48" wide, that's fine for a single access room. But if the new one is going to be 2 sections like that, or has a large Main in it's own 38in. wide section, then it will be over 6ft. wide and over 1200A, so they will need two exits.
SWBD is longer than 6 feet.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
If you don't mind me asking, why a new one? Is it to upgrade? 4000A is typically the highest before you would request a second service.
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Then you need another door...
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
In WA one can apply for a variance, but you are paying for a no. Out AHJs would not give a variance on safety like this example. But going in the same footprint you might be ok, but as pointed out set up meeting before ordering gear
Last edited:
40 years old gear
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
The client wanted.
Knightryder12
Senior Member
- Location
- Clearwater, FL - USA
- Occupation
- Sr. Electrical Designer/Project Manager
I would say it is due for replacement even if yearly maintenance was done and all the switches were maintained.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
You might be able to get an exception from the AHJ.
Is the facility under maintenance supervision, like a industrial plant? They might be okay with it.
I would ask. If you make and identify a clear path of travel to that door then I would probably say it is as safe as two doors.
Is the facility under maintenance supervision, like a industrial plant? They might be okay with it.
I would ask. If you make and identify a clear path of travel to that door then I would probably say it is as safe as two doors.
MyCleveland
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Cannot be done.
MyCleveland
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
This is a case where you will need to do some research and get in front of your AHJ for a decision. If denied, there must be an appeals process where you can go before a State Board of Buildings Standards...I am making statements how it would unfold if your situation was in Ohio.
What appears to be the current codes for Texas, but you have to make sure it is applicable.
Here is the link where I was looking...."https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IEBC2015P6/chapter-1-scope-and-administration".
After looking through these...I am not sure if this would fall under "Repair" or "Alteration - Level 1". Both definitions mention 'replacement', but Repair has an added word of 'damaged'; therefore, if the gear is currently operational and not damaged or defective, then you would fall under "Alteration - Level 1".
When you read through this you will see that BOTH "Repair" and "Alteration - Level 1" make reference to '...maintains the level of protection provided for the means of egress.'.
However, there appears to be a catch all for the AHJ. Look under definitions for "UNSAFE". If this is applicable in a "Repair" or "Alteration - Level 1" project or exposed as an existing condition, then the AHJ could impose a required second exit whether you change the gear or not.
Some of the excerpts I found applicable...
502.1
502.3
503.1
601.2
604.1
701.2
704.1
Chapter 2: Definitions
Hopefully you are being paid for this research. If you are not suited for approaching the AHJ you should step aside unless the owner wants to handle the interaction directly. If the owner clarifies the requirements, then he could direct you on the scope and what documents the locale requires to be submitted.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
NEC110.26(C)(2)
"
A single entrance to and egress from the required working space shall be permitted where either of the conditions in 110.26(C)(2)(a) or (C)(2)(b) is met.
(a) Unobstructed Egress. Where the location permits a continuous and unobstructed way of egress travel, a single entrance to the working space shall be permitted. "
If the OP can identify a single clear path of travel that is continuous and unobstructed then they are okay. They just need the blessing of the AHJ. Some won't allow it based on the rooms configuration because the description of "continuous and unobstructed" is not defined and is open to interpretation. That is why I suggested identifying it, like with yellow paint stripes or something.
MyCleveland
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Elect117
I have always taken (2)(a) & (2)(b) to basically state the same thing. I only have the 2017 exhibits 21 & 22 to base this on. My comment was based on "anbm's" statement about an air-handler in the room so in my mind I am seeing a pocket of space where an EC can become trapped behind.
Probably best to stop our speculation until a dimensioned sketch is provided.
Please note that I am in no way in favor of keeping a condition where an EC can become trapped. I was only trying to point out the rules for existing buildings that are in place.
If the owner is made aware of the reason these rules were put in place, they might be more inclined to make the fix. It could be as simple as MOVING the air-handler to achieve (2)(b) compliance, but again the guessing continues.
I have always taken (2)(a) & (2)(b) to basically state the same thing. I only have the 2017 exhibits 21 & 22 to base this on. My comment was based on "anbm's" statement about an air-handler in the room so in my mind I am seeing a pocket of space where an EC can become trapped behind.
Probably best to stop our speculation until a dimensioned sketch is provided.
Please note that I am in no way in favor of keeping a condition where an EC can become trapped. I was only trying to point out the rules for existing buildings that are in place.
If the owner is made aware of the reason these rules were put in place, they might be more inclined to make the fix. It could be as simple as MOVING the air-handler to achieve (2)(b) compliance, but again the guessing continues.