Panel location - 240.24(D)

Z

Zmax25

Member
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Electrician
What is everyone’s interpretation on 240.24(D)?
Here is the code verbatim:
Not in vicinity of easily ignitable material. Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, such as in clothes closets.

I’m in the beginning stages of wiring a 17k sq/ft mansion. Being the type of house it is the panels need to be fairly hidden, not in hallways or bedrooms where they will be seen all the time. I thought I had the perfect spot to hide them in, a closet off of one of the laundry rooms. The closet is approximately 80 sq/ft. The plans show hanging racks on one side, I wanted to put my panels on the opposite wall which is 6’ away. Now I’m being told I can’t because of this code and that being a closet. The NEC does not define vicinity, but we all know it goes into working space about panels. In my mind as long as the working space is maintained that should be considered not in the vicinity and therefore should be able to put a panel in there. Obviously I would never put a panel in a standard clothes closet with bifold doors. But are you really gonna tell me that I couldn’t put one in this closet, or even better yet the master closet that is probably 500sq ft alone just because there are some clothes in there? Furthermore I don’t believe this code is saying you can’t put a panel in a closet, the way it is worded a clothes closet to me seems like an example. There are easily ignitable materials all around a house, garages especially, but no one has ever told you you can’t put a panel in a garage have they?
 
Hide them in plain view.

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;)
Sorry about the dark image
 
Zmax25 said:
Is this sarcasm? How would mounting a panel where it is covered by window drapes be any better than putting a panel in a closet?
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It's about hiding it in the wide open. Forget drapes, the panel is behind the mural on the far left. Look at the pilings. It could be anywhere in a house with the right wallpaper or paint scheme
 
Most mansions I have seen usually have a telco room or "media" room near the theatre or family room. Mostly for TV equipment and cameras. That should be enough space for a panelboard or two.

You can also try the attic.
 
Zmax25 said:
I’m in the beginning stages of wiring a 17k sq/ft mansion.
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There should be one if not several mechanical equipment rooms in a house that size. Otherwise take the 80² ft room and have them build an electric closet in it.
 
You can walk into it so call it a dressing room instead of a closet.

The code example was probably written for a "hanger' depth closet, where the clothes could touch thr panel.
 
Elect117 said:
Most mansions I have seen usually have a telco room or "media" room near the theatre or family room. Mostly for TV equipment and cameras. That should be enough space for a panelboard or two.

You can also try the attic.
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They do have a large mechanical room next to the theatre, the problem with that is that whole area of the house is surrounded by concrete foundations and garage floors. I’m putting one panel down there to serve that area but I don’t want more there because it’s nearly impossible to get in and out of
 
jim dungar said:
You can walk into it so call it a dressing room instead of a closet.

The code example was probably written for a "hanger' depth closet, where the clothes could touch thr panel.
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That’s my interpretation of it too. It’s a very poorly worded code and not well defined on top of that.
 
Zmax25 said:
What is everyone’s interpretation on 240.24(D)?
Furthermore I don’t believe this code is saying you can’t put a panel in a closet, the way it is worded a clothes closet to me seems like an example. There are easily ignitable materials all around a house, garages especially, but no one has ever told you you can’t put a panel in a garage have they?
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I agree clothes closets seem like an example:

240.24(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material
Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.
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I would rather this be a listing requirement, rather than a vague standard that is not even under control of the electrician that placed the panel. What if you placed a subpanel on a wall outside a closet and 10 years later someone stores cider blocks in the closet, and stacks boxes of alcohol against your wall.

If overcurrent enclosures are letting out sparks or excessive heat THATS THE ACTUAL PROBLEM TO SOLVE.

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Other than like New Jersey, has there been a recent attempt to alter this clause? Locally this rule is driving tons of really really stupid new panel locations that are objectively worse than the original "always in the closet" locations for multifamily.

jim dungar said:
You can walk into it so call it a dressing room instead of a closet.
The code example was probably written for a "hanger' depth closet, where the clothes could touch the panel.
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Exactly. That could be solved with panel design, ensuring that clothes touching the panel is no problem>
With the current rule I could hang a heavy hand woven rug over the non-closet panel, and be "fine".
 
No panels(OCPD's) in clothes closets or bathrooms. No exceptions. everywhere else is subject to the approval of the AHJ.
Foe example I had a client who insisted they didn't want the panel for the MIL suite anywhere visible so against my better judgement I followed their request and installed it in the unconditioned attic area at the end of the suite. The AHJ made the builder construct a conditioned room within the attic space with a switch controlled light fixture and smoke alarm.
 
jeffelectric1992 said:
No panels(OCPD's) in clothes closets or bathrooms. No exceptions.
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The NEC says panels are only prohibited near easily ignitible material. It simply list clothes closets as one place these materials might be located.

Remember the NEC says what it says, not what you might have been taught.
 
A house that size should have dedicated space for this kind of thing. Like others have said, a mechanical room.
 
Are all clothes made of easily ignitible materials? Other than volatile flammable liquids I don't see easily ignitible materials
listed in definitions.
 
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