Panel location violation

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Oakey

Oakey

Senior Member
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New Jersey
Would you put a new panel in this location with this steam pipe directly overhead? I told the customer to get it moved but my competition told them otherwise and it's some big money to do it given the nasty asbestos in this basement. Can someone tell me if the pipe or even the gas meter is required to be moved in NJ? All safety/common sense matters aside I'm trying to find out if the info I gave the customer is correct. My customer thinks I'm selling them magic beans...
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Oakey said:
Would you put a new panel in this location with this steam pipe directly overhead? I told the customer to get it moved but my competition told them otherwise and it's some big money to do it given the nasty asbestos in this basement.
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Without a doubt or even a second thought, I would (maybe I even did :wink:) replace that panel AS IS.

Oakey said:
Can someone tell me if the pipe or even the gas meter is required to be moved in NJ? All safety/common sense matters aside I'm trying to find out if the info I gave the customer is correct. My customer thinks I'm selling them magic beans...
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Remember these words....NEVER forget them:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not New, But Safe

[/FONT]
This is the basic theme in NJ's Rehab code.
Here is an example they give:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For example the BOCA National Building Code, which New Jersey uses for new building construction, requires that doors within dwelling units have a 29 3/4-inch clear opening. This essentially means that all doors within a dwelling unit must be 32-inch doors. Safety is not compromised with a 30-inch or even 28-inch door in a dwelling unit. Therefore, the Rehabilitation Subcode does not contain such a requirement nor does it contain other requirements for changes to existing building features without any corresponding improvement in building safety. The thrust of the Rehabilitation Subcode is to ensure a building that meets an acceptable threshold of safety and that it is no less safe after the project than it was before. It results in a safe building, though not necessarily a new building.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Is the place any LESS safer by leaving those pipes/conditions "as is"?

Give this a read, print it out, save it to your favorites....whatever...just NEVER forget it:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rules That Make Sense?New Jersey?s Rehabilitation Subcode[/FONT]

The link to the rehab code is on the LEFT hand side, under the heading:
Uniform Construction Code Rehabilitation Subcode


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ryan_618 said:
Looks like a violation of 110.26(F) to me.
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I would agree...except that NJ's rehab code will allow it.

Will replacing that panel in it's present location increase the danger?


The Rehab Code is a strange beast....in an apt. building I owned, State did one of their "inspections" (annual,3 or 5 year....I don't remember)....one unit was citing for having NO outlet in the bathroom. I run a seperate line from basement to 2nd floor....I call for an inspection (EI, not State), he checks ONLY device operation.
I ask "Don't you need to see the CB that feeds this?"
His reply, "No, the requirement is that there be a protected outlet in the bathroom"
I finally get to the point and he says the same thing ~ is this any better or worse than what was here?


The Rehab Code is NOT a catch-all for people to run amuck with...although many try.
 
I agree with Celtic that this would fall under the rehab code and be permitted to be replaced in the same location. You may have a problem with the POCO however. I had a similar installation years ago where they wanted 36" between the panel and the gas meter. I believe that was a PSE&G requirement.
 
I have to agree with Celtic and Infinity. The Rehab section of the UCC 'allows' variation from certain NEC requirements. Life Safety items/issues are not subject to the 'Rehab' card being played.

IMPO, the Rehab section is sometimes 'abused'. To my understanding, it's intent (original) was & is to reduce certain financial burdens during renovation/rehabilitation of existing structures that are sitting dormant, and "rehab" said structures to useful life.

BTW, the utility co's do NOT have to abide by the Rehab Sub-Code.

John
 
John Arendt said:
BTW, the utility co's do NOT have to abide by the Rehab Sub-Code.
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There are always "alternatives" that can be addressed.

....in Trevor's case, the gas meter could have been re-located outside ~ maybe not the best, "prettiest" or most cost-effective solution - but an "alternative" nontheless.


How many times does the POCO (here in NJ) actually check the panel location?
It's not covered under their "scope"...the gas meter and the electric meter, yes...but a panel?
 
In my case I called the POCO, PSE&G, which served both the electric and the gas to the house to ask their opinion. They required 3' which meant moving the panel over about 12", which wasn't a big deal. As Celtic notes, and my guess, is that if it was never brought up to the POCO that they never would have even seen it.
 
infinity said:
.... is that if it was never brought up to the POCO that they never would have even seen it.
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Exactly.

PSE&G cares not about panel locations...that's for the city building dept....and under Rehab Code it's "Is it any worse NOW, then BEFORE you changed it?".
 
I think that is about the most apathetic attitude to take....POCO that is. The old saying "We ain't had no problems" YET!...morons. I deal with this everyday in DC.
 
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