panel location

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elect36

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I'm sure this has probably been asked but what determines the panel location in a res. house. I do mostly commercial and industrial some res. but have never been on one from start to finish only to help. I've noticed unfinished basements will usually have the panel down there or a garage.Or is it just were we think the best spot is? :confused:
 
Re: panel location

As long as it's not in a prohibited location (clothes closet or bathroom) and there's enough working space, any location that suits you is fine. Realistically, the meter location often dictates panel location, and meter location is often dictated by POCO transformer location. The meter is on the end of the house closest to the padmount or pole mount transformer. The panel is generally immediately inside the house from the meter, be that in the basement right under the meter, in the garage back to back with the meter, or in another room but immediately near the meter. If the meter location does not "match up" with a suitable panel location, you normally have to mount a weatherproof main disconnect/overcurrect device outdoors and subfeed the main panel at a location in the house that suits you better. It would be quite normal for the prints or the builder to specify the panel location, then it's up to the electrician to accomodate that by whatever means necessary to meet code. In some geographic regions, it is normal to mount a weatherproof panel adjacent to (or in combination with) the meter and have all the branch circuit breakers in the panel outdoors.

[ May 22, 2005, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
 
Re: panel location

I love it when the furnace is "here" so the panel needs to be near "here", but the kitchen and the service aren't in the same zip-code as "here." :D
 
Re: panel location

If the service panel contains the main breaker and is mounted inside the building it must be mounted at the nearest point of entrance of the service conductors. section 230.72(A)(1). The older code allowed 10 ft. from the point of entrance but that is no longer allowed.

Also look at 230.72(c) for access to Occupants. And 110.26(A)(1) for working space.

If the service panel is mounted remote from the main disconnect it must be feed w/a 4 conductor cable and the neutral and egc must be isolated

Romeo
 
Re: panel location

In some geographic regions, it is normal to mount a weatherproof panel adjacent to (or in combination with) the meter and have all the branch circuit breakers in the panel outdoors

This creates a problem in my area and the inspector, actually it should everywhere!

Most houses are wired in NM cable. NM cable can be installed in normally dry locations. NM cable can't be installed where exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampnessAs soon as the NM cable penetrates the exterior of the structure to enter the WP panel it is in a damp location!
One of our inspection agencies was involved in a law suit in the past where they inspected a house, and a person was killed when they touched a disconnect for an exterior AC unit. Although the fattal shock had nothing to do with it, the layers nailed them because the NM cable penetrated the side of the house and terminated in the disconnect. This meant the NM cable was installed in a damp location!
Although this may be getting picky, it is essentially true and our inspector watches pretty close. Has anyone else ran into this?
 
Re: panel location

NM cable can't be installed where exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampnessAs soon as the NM cable penetrates the exterior of the structure to enter the WP panel it is in a damp location!
Click to expand...
You're telling me that the inside of a panel is classified as a damp location? What about outdoor receptacles? Outdoor light fixtures? How do you wire these things?
 
Re: panel location

Inside of a panel per our local inspector, when the panel is located outside is a damp location! Never had a issue with the exterior rec's, but most of them on a house are recessed in the wall, surface mount don't know never had the chance to find out. I am not saying it's right, just that is the interpretation of our inspector. Thats why I was asking if anyone else has ever ran into it. How about some of you inspectors, is this just splitting hairs?
 
Re: panel location

If it is damp or wet inside your 3R panel then a little NM cable is going to be the least of your worries. I mean come on, you've got to draw the line somewhere!! :roll: I'll give you through the wall and directly into the panel in my jurisdiction.
Jerimi M, Electrical Inspector Indiana
 
Re: panel location

Jerimi,
Actually the inside of a 3R enclosure is permited by the standard to be wet, as long as the water does not contact the energized parts. That is why 3R enclosures have drain holes.
From the NEMA Standard.
6.4 Rain Test - Entire top and all exposed sides are sprayed with water at a pressure of 5 psi, from nozzles, for one hour, at a rate to cause water to rise 18 inches in a straight-sided pan beneath the enclosure. Evaluation 6.4.2.1: No water shall have reached live parts, insulation or mechanisms.
Click to expand...
Don
 
Re: panel location

While a NEMA 3R enclosure may be wet by the spec, the inside of an exterior 3R breaker panel is not a damp location in my opinion or it would need special breakers. The breakers for use in outdoor panels (just regular Square D QO, HOM, Cutler Hammer CH, BR, etc.) are for use in dry locations only. Are you saying that someone would make an outdoor panel but you can't actually put breakers in it???? What say you to that?
 
Re: panel location

Ok, so I guess on one has ever run into this interpretation before. I was just curious! When I first herd it I thought the man was out of his flipping mind. Then after I thought about it, it kind of made a little since. The definition of a damp location could include exterior panels, disconnects ect. The fix was easy I just ran UF cable (it was an exterior dis) from the panel to the disconnect. Its all an interpretation deal although I sorta understand I do not agree completely. Thanks for the input.
 
Re: panel location

Keep in mind that even wiring in an outside-run conduit is considered to be in a wet location, no matter how well it's sealed. The water doesn't have to be in direct contact with the wires.
 
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